[leps-talk] Miami Blue

Tue May 7 05:09:38 EDT 2002

> On Tues 07 May 2002 , Neil Jones said:

> I believe very stronnly in having a positive mental attitude. As it
happens as
> I type this I have the Monty Python tune "Always look on the bright side
of
> life" playing on my computer.  :-) However, it is always best to evaluate
> your chances in the light of the best data available. Not everyone
believes
> in this. I suppose this is why casinos make so much out of the people who
> think positively they are going to win when the odds are so obviously
stacked
> against them.

How did it go at the Casino that night? Did playing "Always look on the
bright side of
 life" help? :-)

All I was trying to state that the Miami Blue crew should take heart from
the re-introduction of the Large Blue (Maculinea arion) from a non native
subspecies living in a totally different climate....and that it just shows
you what can be done! (Not how it was done) Or don't we allow good news on
this list?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Jones" <neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk>
To: "Nigel Venters" <nigelventers at ntlworld.com>; "'LEPS-L at LISTS. YALE. EDU
(E-mail)'" <LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu>
Cc: <leps-talk at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [leps-talk] Miami Blue

> On Friday 03 May 2002 04:32 pm, Nigel Venters wrote:
> > Neil is correct in much of what he says....however a "Can do" attitude
is
> > required...and after all attempt at getting the habitat right it is
> > certainly worth many every attempt to succeed! Though much of my working
> > life I
> > have come across people who are defeated before they start..."You'll
never
> > do it" is a common attitude and often is a factor in any project
failing.
>
> I believe very stronnly in having a positive mental attitude. As it
happens as
> I type this I have the Monty Python tune "Always look on the bright side
of
> life" playing on my computer.  :-) However, it is always best to evaluate
> your chances in the light of the best data available. Not everyone
believes
> in this. I suppose this is why casinos make so much out of the people who
> think positively they are going to win when the odds are so obviously
stacked
> against them.
>
> >
> > Neil mentions  Lycaenids succeeding best in reintroduction...what he
> > doesn't say if that the British Large Blue (Maculinea arion) became
extinct
> > in UK and was reintroduced using Scandinavian stock...stock originating
in
> > a totally different climate zone and having a different flight time to
the
> > original British stock. The reintroduced stock has done quite well in
some
> > areas and have adjusted to emerge at the same time as the original
British
> > stock. So this just shows you what can be done!
>
> There really is no miracle here. The changes are just what is expected
from
> the difference in the start of warm temperatures in the spring. The Large
> Blues (Maculinea spp) are one of the most intensively studied insects.
Their
> habitat requirements are very well known. Even then  some of the
introduction
> efforts have failed. It just won't work in the Cotswold Hills for example.
> Even the famous " Secret site X in the West Country" where the last native
> population was and the first introduction was started may not be big
enough
> to hold a population over the long term.
>
>
> The ethics of introducing a
> > non-native species is another matter!
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > I'm not sure that Silk Moth Bombyx mori is a good example to use when
> > discussing captive stock changing....none of us will live long enough!
> > Bombyx mori has been domesticated for thousands of years and is not much
> > different from any other
> > domesticated animal...and we all know that many domesticated animals
> > couldn't survive in the wild if released! Captive stock is not so very
> > different from the wild stock for species that live in closed isolated
> > colonies, but of course in time natural selection would favour the
captive
> > conditions imposed....rather than the area the stock originated from.
> > Nigel
>
> You are confusing two different facts. There is no doubt that Bombyx mori
was
> domesticated a long time ago. This does not mean that it took a long time
to
> reach the domesticated condition. As I said, research in Drosophila has
found
> that domestication effects can occur quite quickly.
>
> Also, it is rare for butterflies to live in closed colonies in the wild.
Loss
> of habitat may give the impression that this is natural but these examples
> may be doomed populations in the longer term without intervention. Some
> species may live in closed populations but Population Dynamics Theory
tends
> to indicate that closed populations are vulnerable to extinction events.
> Particularly if they are relatively small. There is increasing evidence
that
> many of our butterfly species exist in "Metapopulations",  which are
groups
> of colonies linked by extinction and colonisation events.
>
> It is a popular pastime in the UK for lepidopterists to release insects in
> the hope of forming colonies. These are often done in the gambling spirt
of
> positive thinking . However, the research has shown conclusively that long
> term success is a rare event. The real problem with this is that it
creates a
> false picture and risks scarce conservation resources being diverted to
> hopeless causes. This is such a big problem that discouraging it is
written
> into the action plan for one of the UK protected species. Over 80
> introduction attempts have been tried with _not_one_single_  long term
> success.
>
> Also there is a big problem with developers proposing to move creatures of
> all sorts from sites. They always claim that this will work and by the
time
> it fails the original site has been destroyed. These claims are not always
> made by people with great knowledge of the subject. I came across one
> document recently talking about translocating Great Crested Newts.
> They were referred to as _reptiles_.!! It would be hillariously funny if
it
> were not such a serious conservation issue!
>
> --
> Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/
> NOTE NEW WEB ADDRESS
> "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
> butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog
> National Nature Reserve
>
>
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