[leps-talk] MALE x FEMALE emergence

[Greg Nielsen]

In Colombia, Pseudolycaena marsyas lays eggs in groups of 7-12 and the
larvae are gregarious for the first couple of instars on tender new growth
leaves. Later instars are usually found on separate older leaves but
sometimes you find 2 or 3 larvae on the same leaf.

Greg Nielsen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Bizarro" <bizarro at bio.ufpr.br>
To: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [leps-talk] MALE x FEMALE emergence


> Yes, I agree; indeed , my question was on the oddity of all the gregarious
> species that I was able to rear, in diferent families, from egg to pupa
> (Actinotes run away from each other after 5 th instar) presenting female
> emergence first. I confess they were not too many. So it would be
> interesting to know of others in this condition, to see how far the
> phenomenon is spead out among Lepidoptera; for instance:
>
> Asterocampa spp.
> Eucheira socialis
> Baronia brevicornis
> Thaumatopeia sp, (Pine processionary)
> Dione sp. (Heliconian)
> Euphydryas spp.
>
> Besides: is anyone aware of gregarious Lycaenidae... I can't remember a
> single one, but there are a few in Riodinidae (or Riodininae?).
>
> If there isn't a single gregarious species of Lycaenidae, that would be
> something really remarkable, for some reason.
>
> Jorge
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nigel Venters" <nigelventers at ntlworld.com>
> To: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 5:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [leps-talk] MALE x FEMALE emergence
>
>
> > Neil Jones wrote:
> > > The simple explanation as to why males usually hatch first is that
they
> > > develop quicker, being smaller. The larvae pupate earlier and
therefore
> > the
> > > adults emerge earlier.
> >
> > Well this is an easy explanation that I have seen written many times
> > before...but I ask myself...why? If it were not advantageous for the
males
> > to hatch first (generally)...then they wouldn't have developed this
> strategy
> > in the first place....also using your own rule of thumb...if we apply it
> to
> > the original question...then we must assume that all gregarious
species...
> > where the females hatch first..... the females will be smaller than the
> > males...I don't think so. There must be more to it than this. Try some
> hand
> > pairing with Papilio or Nymphalid males less than 3 days old and see how
> you
> > get on.
> > Nigel
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Neil Jones" <neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk>
> > To: "Nigel Venters" <nigelventers at ntlworld.com>; <bizarro at bio.ufpr.br>;
> > <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>; "leps-talk" <TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 7:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: [leps-talk] MALE x FEMALE emergence
> >
> >
> > > On Monday 20 May 2002 09:51 pm, Nigel Venters wrote:
> > > > Here's a shot at it!
> > > >
> > > > In many species males usually hatch first as their claspers and
> aedeagus
> > > > need to harden fully before they can mate successfully..often a few
> > > > days...this  allows some dispersion to take place to reduce the
chance
> > of
> > > > pairing with a female from their own brood.
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think that this is the ultimate reason for males emerging
> earlier.
> > > When you look at the length of the adult life span ability to harden
and
> > mate
> > > earlier would be likely to be subject to high evolutionary pressures.
> > > It would be unlikely that evolution would deliberately delay mating
> > > for this reason alone. Even the dispersal argument wouldn't
necessarily
> be
> > > advantagious. It depends on the size of the population in small
> > populations
> > > The Allee Effect could even increase the risk of local extinctions.
> > >
> > > The simple explanation as to why males usually hatch first is that
they
> > > develop quicker, being smaller. The larvae pupate earlier and
therefore
> > the
> > > adults emerge earlier.
> > >
> > > There are other intincitve mechanisms that work against sibling
matings.
> > > Instictive measures like this are not uncommon. There is one in Homo
> > sapiens.
> > >
> > > > Maybe in gregarious species...as there is a high concentration of
the
> > same
> > > > brood in exactly the same place...nature by allowing the females to
> > hatch
> > > > first causes an even further dispersion to occur before the males
from
> > the
> > > > same brood to hatch, mature and start to pair, thus making it
unlikely
> > to
> > > > pair with a sibling. Nigel
> > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > --
> > > Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/
> > > NOTE NEW WEB ADDRESS
> > > "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
> > > butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn
Bog
> > > National Nature Reserve
> >
> >
> >
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