Cynthia

Nigel Venters nigelventers at ntlworld.com
Thu Nov 7 09:07:40 EST 2002


Are you sure the offspring of V. atlanta and C. annabella were fertile? A
few years ago a friend of mine had a Saturnid (Forget which one) pair with
Sphinx lingustri in a large flight area...I didn't believe him until I saw
the photos! Needless to say the ova were infertile!
Nigel
 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Yule" <droberts03 at SNET.Net>
To: <drdn at mail.utexas.edu>; <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: Cynthia


> Hi all.
>    I think Chris brings up a good point: If two entities can hybridize in
> the wild is that in itself sufficient to consider them congeneric?
>   I'm not a taxonomist or an entomologist but I can't help but wonder if
two
> butterflies can mate and produce fertile offspring and you can still
> consider them affiliated with different genera what exactly then does that
> taxon (genus) mean?
>
>                                             Bill Yule
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris J. Durden" <drdn at mail.utexas.edu>
> To: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Cynthia
>
>
> > To me the occurrence of occasional wild hybrids between *V. atalanta*
and
> > *C. annabella* suggests that they should be considered congeneric and
that
> > *Cynthia* should be ranked as a weak subgenus of *Vanessa*.
> > ................Chris Durden
> >
> > At 11:57 AM 11/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Hi Bill et al.,
> > >
> > >Cynthia resurrected by W. D. Field (1971, Smithsonian Contrib. Zool.
84)
> > >for
> > >cardui, kershawi, virginiensis, altissima, braziliensis, terpsichore,
> > >myrinna, annabella, carye
> > >
> > >Vanessa ss. is for atalanta, tameamea, samani, indica, dejeanii
> > >
> > >Bassaris ss. for itea and gonerilla
> > >
> > >Lately, the monophyly of Vanessa + Cynthia + Bassaris  has been
> > >supported by molecular and morphological cladistic analysis by Nylin et
> > >al (2001, Biol. J. Linn Soc. 132:441-468), although they do not have an
> > >opinion on whether the clade should be one genus or three.
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >
> > >Andy Brower
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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