[leps-talk] Heliconius charithonius in Dallas, Texas...sort o f...

Fri Sep 20 12:21:49 EDT 2002

A couple more things that I thought about this subject during lunch:

First, and this actually surprised me when I looked at the USGS map a few
days ago: There are no records (at all) posted up and down the Ohio River
Valley (not even along the Lower Austral part of it); if strigosus had the
tendency to move up and down this valley, surely someone would have found
and recorded it, particularly in consideration of the very active and
reliable Ohio Lepidopterists Society. And also, quite curiously, there are
likewise hardly any records of it along the Mississippi Valley, which also
seems to be further evidence that its movement is more connected to the
Great Plains than the Mississippi Valley.

Second: In western Arizona (Lake Havasu City, etc.) late last February, I
saw (but was unable to collect one) a number of specimens of strigosus; each
one was observed as steadily moving toward the west (or perhaps southwest).
So it definitely does disperse; but just not toward the northeast. 

By the way, we did actually roadkill one, along I-40 toward Kingman, but
with a truck behind us there was no opportunity for me to scream the time
honored phrase: "LJILJANA, STOP THE CAR!!!!" Actually, my brother-in-law was
with me and I was driving, so if there had been ANY way...

Alex   

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Grkovich, Alex [SMTP:agrkovich at tmpeng.com]
> Sent:	Friday, September 20, 2002 11:50 AM
> To:	'Michael Gochfeld'; Harry Pavulaan; TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com;
> leps-l at lists.yale.edu
> Subject:	RE: [leps-talk] Heliconius charithonius in Dallas,
> Texas...sort o f...
> 
> Mike,
> 
> Yes, except that Painted Ladies and all the others that migrate (or
> disperse) into the northeast during late summer akso range up the east
> coast
> from the southeast, also that this is a normal and annual event for those
> species. But NOT strigosus. If it did, then we would be consistently
> finding
> records of it all the time, and these records would occur throughout the
> eastern part of the upper Midwest, and also along the coastal plain. But
> this is not the case for strigosus. 
> 
> As I said, look at the USGS map for strigosus. It's a lower Great Plains
> immigrant (we can almost add - ONLY). Now just because I never saw it in
> TN
> or OH or Wichita Falls, TX  doesn't of course, mean it wasn't there
> (especially the latter, but not seeing a single one over the course of
> more
> than 3 weeks was remarkable, and there were a LOT of things flying). But
> especially in western TN, I DID see some of the immigrants over the course
> of almost 2 years, including Agraulis vanillae nigrior, Zerene cesonia,
> Phoebis sennae eubule etc. but not strigosus. 
> 
> And, really, HOW would strigosus get to Marblehead? From Missouri. And
> look
> at the photos: It's an immaculate specimen. Sorry, I just don't believe
> it.
> 
> Alex
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Michael Gochfeld [SMTP:gochfeld at EOHSI.RUTGERS.EDU]
> > Sent:	Friday, September 20, 2002 11:38 AM
> > To:	Harry Pavulaan; TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com;
> > leps-l at lists.yale.edu
> > Subject:	Re: [leps-talk] Heliconius charithonius in Dallas,
> > Texas...sort of...
> > 
> > When I first heard that the Massachusetts Queens was the western
> > subspecies, I
> > thought that this INCREASED the likelihood of a wild, natural origin.
> > Others
> > have the opposite view (Alex, Harry?).  Don't we northeasterners get a
> lot
> > of
> > emigrants from the southwest (Painted Lady, comes to mind first).  It
> > points out
> > the usefulness (or at least the interest) of subspecific identification.
> > But,
> > that still leaves us a controversy to sort out.
> > 
> > And no, I don't seem to have saved (or perhaps even seen) a photo of the
> > New
> > Jersey Queen.
> > 
> > Mike Gochfeld
> > 
> > Harry Pavulaan wrote:
> > 
> > > Dale Clark wrote:
> > >
> > > <<
> > > I'm probably opening a can of worms here, and I don't really mean to,
> > but
> > > it's just frustrating for someone like myself (and many others) who
> are
> > > trying to monitor populations, etc. and find these...illegals...flying
> > > about.  Just felt like venting a bit.
> > > >>
> > >
> > > Dale:  Please do vent!  And...open that can of worms.  While I
> > absolutely
> > > hate the thought of more government rules and regulations, the
> butterfly
> > > release industry really should take a look at it's practices and
> > consider
> > > adhering to some ethical standards and "policing" itself, or the
> > government
> > > will do it.
> > >
> > > I have absolutely nothing against the release of butterflies obtained
> > > locally or within the same regional biogeographic province where the
> > same
> > > gene pool exists, but the introduction of specimens of a distinct
> > subspecies
> > > into the range of another is disturbing.  While a few isolated
> releases
> > are
> > > probably not a problem (I suppose the genes will be absorbed into the
> > local
> > > population without effect, if cross-breeding occurs), if this practice
> > > accelerates, well, I can see where problems might arise.
> > >
> > > The increasing numbers of Danaus gilippus that have been reported in
> the
> > > northeast in recent years, with a surge of reports this year,
> initially
> > > seemed to indicate a previously undocumented migratory phenomenon.  Or
> > does
> > > it?  A recent report from Marblehead, MA. (just northeast of Boston)
> was
> > > documented with photographs.  Turns out that this individual is
> > distinctly
> > > subspecies "strigosus" (based on distinct characteristic dorsal HW
> > marks)
> > > and not nominotypical "gilippus", meaning that its origin is in the
> > American
> > > southwest rather than Florida.  Does this mean it's a migrant that
> came
> > up
> > > through the midwest, then came eastward and found its way into New
> > England?
> > > Strigosus is somewhat migratory, so it sounds plausible but unlikely.
> > Or
> > > does this indicate that strigosus is being released in the east?  Now,
> > all
> > > of these northeastern D. gilippus sightings are thrown into doubt.
> > >
> > > My recommendation is for breeders to tag or mark all of their stock
> > destined
> > > for release so that at least the first generation "releasees" can be
> > > identified.
> > >
> > > Harry Pavulaan
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > >
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