Monarch Mexican Migration and land management

Grkovich, Alex agrkovich at tmpeng.com
Fri Nov 21 14:42:06 EST 2003


It's not just Texas, Pat...It's an epidemic disease of greed that's
swallowing our nation...and the smog at those hideous backups in front of
those toll booths (so that a motorist can add $.75 to the coffers of the
States of Maine and New Hampshire for example...which are known to be 5 to
10 miles in length along I-95) is appalling...

Hey, but who cares?

I am more and more beginning to think that we might re-focus some of our
efforts...while all the public is hearing about is the "Monarch", our own
natural inheritance (not to mention our freedoms) is being stolen right in
front of our eyes...

Alex

PS The State of Florida has just "listed" the "Miami Blue"...but the
"developments keep on trucking around Orlando...and who knows if it's even
the real Miami Blue that they "listed"...

PPS I understand that Stephen King (who is from Maine) was once asked just
where does he get the inspiration for his novels...His answer was something
to the effect that all he has to do is drive through those Maine toll booths
(and if the reader understands what he was talking about, he meant look
inside the toll booth at the "fare collector")...

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Patrick Foley [SMTP:patfoley at csus.edu]
> Sent:	Friday, November 21, 2003 2:39 PM
> To:	Grkovich, Alex
> Cc:	monarch at saber.net; LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu
> Subject:	Re: Monarch Mexican Migration and land management
> 
> Alex,
> 
> Perhaps Texas needs better environmental protection laws. Talk to their 
> governor and legislature.
> 
> I certainly support stronger environmental protection laws in 
> California. And vote for those who do also.
> 
> Patrick
> 
> Grkovich, Alex wrote:
> 
> > All this talks about the Monarch overwintering sites are "interesting",
> but
> > there may be an equal or perhaps an even bigger threat going on within
> our
> > own U.S. borders, to MANY species of all animal (and plant) groups...
> > 
> > I have made three visits to San Antonio, Texas in the past year, in
> order to
> > visit a friend (which is of course a good excuse to go and
> collect)...and
> > have been increasingly shocked at the scope of very extensive and VERY
> > poorly planned "housing developments" going on there...One area where in
> > particular I have watched this "progress" is on the west side of the
> city,
> > where hundreds upon hundreds of acres of beautiful Lower Austral habitat
> are
> > being cleared - razed, bulldozed to dust, to well below the soil, and
> are
> > being replaced by hundreds upon hundreds of blocks of "housing
> > projects"...and where this "development" has not yet taken place, all
> one
> > sees is signs advertisement future "Green Acres" or "Sierra Acres" or
> > something such...NOTHING whatsoever of the vegetation at all is being
> left
> > behind, and the "houses" are little more than $80,000 to $125,000 paper
> > shacks with a clean and pretty facade...At first, I also thought how
> nice
> > that the outer ring around the west of the city, Rt. 1604, is being
> > converted from a two lane country (sub-suburban road) to a freeway,
> which
> > will no doubt all too soon be choked and clogged with the same levels of
> > "traffic" that is now choking freeways all over our country (including
> in
> > San Antonio itself, despite the fact that for example, I-410 has 12
> lanes in
> > some areas...and try getting from Boston to Portland, Maine
> sometime...once
> > you manage to clear the "traffic", it all builds up again at the "toll
> > booths")...until it was pointed out to me that the state is applying for
> the
> > expansion of the highway to "accommodate" the perhqps hundreds of
> thousands
> > of new residents who are apparently in many cases being imported from
> > surrounding regions (i.e. states) into these virtual "ghettos". Already
> the
> > cost in terms of social "progress" is being felt into these
> areas...these
> > "ghettos are fast becoming drug and crime-infested...This has nothing to
> do
> > with urban planning...it has little more to do with anything other than
> the
> > making of a quick and cheap buck by the "developers" at the expense of
> the
> > community, of the residents of surrounding, better-planned neighborhoods
> and
> > area, and finally of the current and future residents of these
> "ghettos",
> > who probably are being sucked-in to buy in these "communities...And
> finally
> > to the natural residents - plant and animal - which have and are being
> > devastated and wiped out.
> > 
> > I have seen the  same "progress" going on in large scale around Orlando,
> > Florida and in many other areas...and from what I understand, perhaps
> > destroying what's left of the lower Rio Grande Valley is next on the
> agenda
> > of these "carpertbaggers"?
> > 
> > God forbid.
> > 
> > How about some comments and some action on bringing to a halt THESE
> threats
> > to our environment as well as to our society and to our social wealth,
> Pat,
> > Lincoln and Chip and others involved in "saving the Monarch"...compared
> to
> > all this I'm afraid that the Monarch may be doing quite OK...and I saw
> them
> > active in San Antonio as well as in south Texas last weekend... 
> > 
> > Alex
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From:	Patrick Foley [SMTP:patfoley at csus.edu]
> >>Sent:	Friday, November 21, 2003 10:47 AM
> >>To:	monarch at saber.net
> >>Cc:	LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu
> >>Subject:	Re: Monarch Mexican Migration and land management
> >>
> >>Paul,
> >>
> >>So your theory about Monarch winter sites is that everything is cool in 
> >>Mexico, and in California we should be planting more Eucalyptus, a 
> >>highly flammable introduced tree.
> >>
> >>Its hard to figure why your ideas are not embraced by the scientific 
> >>community.
> >>
> >>Wouldn't it be OK to spend just a little money on land preservation and 
> >>scientific research? The cost here is pretty small compared to, for 
> >>example, bailing out ENRON CEO's or spraying DDT over all the wetlands 
> >>and waterways of the USA, a few of our oldies-but-goodies. And just 
> >>possibly, the work that Brower's team is doing will reveal more about 
> >>the oyamel fir forest than the assurances you make.
> >>
> >>As a masters student at U Az years ago, I heard the Canadian ecologist 
> >>E. C. Pielou give a talk on the biogeography of brown algae. One of the 
> >>very junior faculty somewhat haughtily asked her why she thought this 
> >>research was of any scientific interest.
> >>
> >>Steadily, pointedly, she made her reply, "Some of us believe that much 
> >>can be learned about the world by actually looking at it."
> >>
> >>Patrick
> >>
> >>Paul Cherubini wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Pat Foley wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I am perfectly willing to give you credit for your observations and
> >>>>insights about Monarch roosting behavior and the possibility that the
> >>>>Brower group is overly committed to a simplistic model. But if your
> >>>>alternative to the Brower model is to do nothing, to protect
> nothing,...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Well, what needs to be done?  Like do we need to finance reforestation
> >>>programs at the altitude where the monarchs overwinter? No, because
> >>>there is practically no logging damage that needs to be repaired.
> >>>
> >>>Do we need to finance reforestation programs below the altitude where
> >>>the monarch overwinter?  Not generally, because low altitude forests
> are
> >>
> >>>not used by the butterflies as overwintering habitat.  However, the 
> >>>monarchs commonly find drinking water on the cropland immediately
> >>>below the sanctuaries http://www.saber.net/~monarch/kurt2.JPG  
> >>>(obviously a benefit). In addition, nectar sources such as sunflowers
> >>>commonly grow as weeds on this cropland 
> >>>http://www.saber.net/~monarch/arriving2.jpg (photo lifted from
> >>>Journey North website).
> >>>
> >>>Do we need to finance reforestation programs to repair occassional
> >>
> >>forest 
> >>
> >>>fire damage? No, because the forest regenerates on it's own.  
> >>>
> >>>Is the human population in the monarch reserve area rising rapidly? 
> >>>No, because as in rural areas of the USA, the young people tend to
> >>>migrate to the larger cities to find better educational and employment
> >>>opportunities.  
> >>>
> >>>Do we need to finance studies about the "appropriate land management 
> >>>policy for Monarch winter sites and learn more about the autecology
> >>>of overwintering Monarchs?"  No, because current and past land use
> >>>use practices have n proved to be compatible with monarch
> overwintering.
> >>
> >>>Paul Cherubini
> >>>
> >>> 
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