Brower replies- The most recent ranting about monarch butterfly conservation

Thu Oct 9 19:59:01 EDT 2003

And like I've said, "I don't give a rat's ass."  So, whatcha doin' about it?
Get offski, or getowtski gorodenski.  My time is valuable, if we're talking
years, here.  cb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley A. Gorodenski" <stan_gorodenski at asualumni.org>
Cc: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Brower replies- The most recent ranting about monarch butterfly
conservation


> And likewise, I  was waiting for you to give this kind of response so
> that I can say: You are missing the point! Your definition of a
> successful species, exemplified by your examples, is one that has
> already _passed_ the test, whatever it may be. The passenger pigeon did
> not pass its test and so it is extinct. You cannot say the Monarch will
> be a successful species with regard to the Mexico migration until it has
> passed its test, which in this case will be adapting to the human
> destruction of the habitat it is now using or may use in lieu of its
> current overwintering habitat. This may take many years to be realized.
> Stan
>
> Charles Bordelon wrote:
>
> >That's exactly the reply I was praying to hear...  Where's my shotgun,
ma?
> >I'm gonna go shoot me some Monarchs...  Get a life, people.  cb
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Stanley A. Gorodenski" <stan_gorodenski at asualumni.org>
> >Cc: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
> >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 5:25 PM
> >Subject: Re: Brower replies- The most recent ranting about monarch
butterfly
> >conservation
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>You forgot the passenger pigeon.
> >>
> >>Charles Bordelon wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Are we to assume Monarchs are too stupid to find other sites?  All this
> >>>
> >>>
> >talk
> >
> >
> >>>and number-crunching is dung in the real world. What did house sparrows
> >>>
> >>>
> >do
> >
> >
> >>>before there were houses?  Barn swallows before barns?  Ratings,
ratings,
> >>>rantings...  So what?  You can't tell me such a successful insect
> >>>
> >>>
> >couldn't
> >
> >
> >>>adapt.  We'll destroy ourselves before every resource is depleted.  Go
to
> >>>the Mexican Government.  This whole Monarch business is not only moot,
> >>>
> >>>
> >it's
> >
> >
> >>>completely boring.  cb
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: <neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk>
> >>>To: <tils-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com>
> >>>Cc: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>; <brower at sbc.edu>
> >>>Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:49 PM
> >>>Subject: Brower replies- The most recent ranting about monarch
butterfly
> >>>conservation
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Professor Brower asked me to pass on this message to these lists.
> >>>>
> >>>>Neil Jones
> >>>>
> >>>>From: Lincoln P. Brower brower at sbc.edu
> >>>>Subject: The most recent ranting about monarch butterfly conservation
> >>>>by Mr. Cherubini.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>To whom it may concern:
> >>>>
> >>>>To those who may seriously consider taking Mr. Paul Cherubini's
> >>>>October 2003 criticisms of L. P. Brower's recent (4 October 2003)
> >>>>lecture to the Pacific Grove Museum of Natural History in California,
> >>>>I suggest perusing the following three scientific papers:
> >>>>
> >>>>1) Brower, L.P., Kust, D.R., Rendon-Salinas, E., Serrano, E.G.,
> >>>>Kust, K.R., Miller, J., Fernandez del Rey, C., &amp; Pape, K. (In
> >>>>press  2003). Catastrophic winter storm mortality of monarch
> >>>>butterflies in Mexico during January 2002. In: The Monarch Butterfly:
> >>>>Biology and Conservation (Editors. K.M. Oberhauser  M.
> >>>>Solensky). Cornell University Press, Ithaca.
> >>>>
> >>>>2) Brower, L.P., Castilleja, G., Peralta, A., Lopez-Garcia, J.,
> >>>>Bojorquez-Tapia, L., Diaz, S., Melgarejo, D.,  Missrie, M.
> >>>>(2002). Quantitative changes in forest quality in a principal
> >>>>overwintering area of the monarch butterfly in Mexico: 1971 to
> >>>>1999. Conservation Biology, 16, 346-359.
> >>>>
> >>>>3) Bojorquez, L.A., Brower, L.P., Castilleja, G.,
> >>>>Sánchez-Colón, S., Hernández, M., Calvert, W.H., Díaz, S.,
> >>>>Gómez-Priego, P., Alcantar, G., Melgarejo, E.D., Solares, M.J.,
> >>>>Gutiérrez, L., Juárez, M.d.L. (2003). Mapping expert
> >>>>knowledge: redesigning the monarch butterfly biosphere reserve.
> >>>>Conservation Biology, 17, 367 - 379.
> >>>>
> >>>>The first paper (still in press) documents the winter storm mortality
> >>>>of overwintering monarch butterflies in Mexico that occurred in
> >>>>January 2002. One quarter of a billion monarchs were estimated
> >>>>to have been killed in two of several known colonies, all of which
> >>>>were impacted by a powerful and widespread storm and cold
> >>>>front. The second publication documents that the monarchs'
> >>>>overwintering forest within the 1986 presidentially decreed reserve
> >>>>has been degraded by 44% as well as heavily fragmented over a 28 year
> >>>>period, through January 1999. The third publication describes the
> >>>>process and rationale by which the new 2000 presidential decree
> >>>>increased the supposedly protected overwintering area from 62 to 217
> >>>>square miles. Research in progress with colleagues from the
> >>>>University of Mexico, NASA, Lynchburg College and Sweet Briar College
> >>>>indicates that extensive illegal logging is currently occurring
> >>>>within the supposedly protected areas. When these data are published,
> >>>>they will be available for public scrutiny.
> >>>>
> >>>>The exact number of years it will take for the current and increasing
> >>>>logging to irreversibly disrupt the migration of the monarch's
> >>>>eastern population is always an unknown. What we do know is
> >>>>that the forests within the tiny area of Mexico in which hundreds of
> >>>>millions of monarchs overwinter is being rapidly degraded.
> >>>>Denial of this is yet another example of the ostrich-like behavior of
> >>>>the more extreme members of the anti-conservation movement who choose
> >>>>to obfuscate hard scientific evidence in order to advance their
> >>>>political positions.
> >>>>
> >>>>Lincoln P. Brower
> >>>>Research Professor of Biology
> >>>>Sweet Briar College
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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