[leps-talk] RE: Fwd: Monarch saviors

Roger Kuhlman rkuhlman at hotmail.com
Mon Mar 8 12:40:58 EST 2004

I hardly see the Sierra Club as a "radical environmentalist" movement. In 
fact, it can be greatly faulted as conservation and habitat protection group 
since it advocates little to control population growth in America. The large 
increases in the size of the American population experienced recently ( 203 
million in 1970 and 293 million in 2003 ) and those projected in the future 
( 410 to 450 million ) are having and will have a major negative impacts on 
natural habitats and ecosystems in the United States.

What however is "radical", is an absolutist property rights position 
concerning land usuage. A landowner must act responsibly. He or she can not 
do anything they want with the land they temporarily manage.

Roger Kuhlman

>Amen, Alex. The Sierra Club and I parted company 20-odd years ago.
>Jim Taylor
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Grkovich, Alex" <agrkovich at tmpeng.com>
>To: <monarch at saber.net>; <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
>Cc: <TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:16 AM
>Subject: [leps-talk] RE: Fwd: Monarch saviors
>The Sierra Club is just another example of the "radical environmentalist"
>movement that threatens the freedom of citizens in this country. One 
>just WHO is secretly lurking behind such organizations, probably even
>unbeknown to many of the honest folks who lead these groups. Certainly
>conservation has to be at the forefront of the minds of all of us, and
>certainly IS there...But...the messages that are conveyed in their 
>in which they advertise for new members (I just received one and it is now
>in the trash) are misleading and are plainly not truthful in all regards.
>For example, hearings are on-going in terms of revising the (dangerously
>flawed) Endangered Species Act...The message here in the advertisement is :
>"Save all of this threatened wildlife..." which is of course the goal of 
>of us...What is NOT conveyed is the other side of the coin...Here is an
>About two weeks ago I read in the Boston Globe an article (in Section 1)
>about a man is eastern Mass. who is currently (I believe that I do not
>understand this incorrectly, but I disavow any responsibility in this 
>if I am in error...) being prosecuted for killing a Red Tailed Hawk (an
>"Endangered Species") which was threatening (killing) his livestock...Well,
>first, isn't the MAN'S interest and livelihood and FREEDOM on his own
>property, first and foremost (..."...for the Common Welfare..." as was
>written in the Declaration of Independence of our Republic) above that of 
>animal? And Red Tailed Hawks are now abundant in eastern Massachusetts, we
>have a colony of them in the conservation area behind our own property...I
>actually saw one near downtown Boston yesterday...So why on earth are they
>We need to write to Congress (Representatives Pombo, Walden and Cardoza)
>about the shortcomings of this dangerously flawed Act.
>And no more money for the "Sierra Club"...
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paul Cherubini [SMTP:monarch at saber.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:18 PM
> > To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Monarch saviors
> >
> > Richard Worth wrote:
> > >
> > > FYI.  Some good news
> > > Butterfly Bodyguards
> > > illegal logging has put the monarch's survival at risk.
> > > To its rescue has come a Mexican butterfly patrol, including
> > > 500 police as well as environmental inspectors and helicopters.
> > > So far, the effort has netted 28 illegal loggers and nearly 5,000
> > > cubic yards of ill-gotten wood.
> >
> > This Sierra Magazine article failed to inform the reader that
> > the harvested trees in this case were growing way below the
> > altitude where the monarchs cluster.  Therefore the "5,000
> > cubic yards of ill-gotten wood" did not actually represent any monarch
> > cluster habitat that was lost.  It follows that even if more of this
> > "illegal" type harvesting should occur in the future, it will not pose a
> > threat to the monarch. Thus the butterfly patrol people aren't really
> > "rescuing" the monarch.
> >
> > You see a few years ago, American monarch biologists arbitrarily
> > enlarged the Monarch Reserve boundaries way beyond and below
> > the altitude where the monarchs cluster.  Understandably, some of
> > the local people are angry about being deprived of access to
> > large areas of forest which the butterflies don't actually need or
> > use.
> >
> > Here is another actual case history of some illegal (apparently)
> > logging within the Chincua Monarch Reserve a few years ago
> > and my explanation as to why is it does not pose a threat to the
> > monarch: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/chincualog.jpg
> >
> > Paul Cherubini
> > El Dorado, Calif.
> >
> >
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