was:Monarchs now humanity

Neil Jones neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk
Sun Apr 10 15:01:04 EDT 2005

Ron Gatrelle wrote:

> For the sake of the original and still leps-l continuing thread, and also
> to be polite to those who don't want to read stuff like the following, I
> have changed the name due to the direct it is taking.  Also do not cc or
> forward this to another group as that sort of thing is rude as it dumps
> others into the middle of something they have no point of reference to.
> RG

You do know that you did that yourself don't you Ron.:-)
I am not replying on Leps-l :-)

Seriously, I don't think you are thinking clearly about this. Just because
you feel a motive attaches to cross posting in your mind doesn't mean that
you are right. Someone may have perfectly rational reasons for crossposting
that have nothing to do with being mischievious or impolite.

> snip
>> The words "inhuman" and ?inhumane? direct us to the notion that we
> usually do not consider other creatures capable of inhumane behavior.  It
> is only the human animal that is inhumane.  It is ?natural? for us to
> rape, pillage and plunder not only the natural world, but each other.
> ***************
> I am one of those (moderately) against zoos because animals in such
> conditions develop (or loose) _their natural_ patterns of behavior.  
> Thus,
> they do things that are "un-natural", even to each other.  Our use of the
> term "unnatural" relative to other animals is the equivalent to our use of
> inhuman for ourselves.  All I have to do is coin the word inseal and have
> it catch on for it to be in Webster's in 20 years. But then we would have
> to coin such a word for every living thing on earth.  So instead we at
> times even use the term "inhumane" in application to vicious disfunctional
> animal behaviour.   So your use of words like that has little
> argumentative value.
> Secondly, rape, pillage and plunder are precisely _natural_.  Totally
> 100%. 


> Rape is something almost
> all male animals do - we are the only ones to have made it a "crime".

I really do wonder about you sometimes you know. Do you really realise what
you have just said!

> Homosexuality used to be "against the law" too but is now widely embrased
> as simply genetic.

> Same for alcholism.

I have an environmentally acquired immunity to it. :-) I was brought up

   Rapests have looonnnng stated
> that it is not their "fault" it is in their genes.    Neil has stated the
> bent to religiosity is in our genes - I can't help it.

It is in the genes of SOME of us. There is at least some evidence that my 
immunity to infection by the religion bug is inherited. It runs in my
family as incidentally does an interest in butterflies.
I was immersed in religion at a young age but never succumbed.

> The greatist proof
> of Jehovah God and Creation is all of us.   The one very unique thing He
> made.  Test the theory.  Is what He claimed to have created existant?  In
> abundance.  Does it behave exactly as He stated - uniquely different from
> all other animals?  Patently obvious - except to the unwise: Romans
> 1:20-21.

It is not foolish hearts which are against phoney religious teachings but
often quite intelligent ones. Are you saying that anyone who doesn't
believe in St Paul's vision of creation is stupid? Clarity of vision of the
truth of any religious concept is in the eye of the beholder.

Here is my position to you yet again. I don't believe that you can counter
the argument. It is nearly two years to the day since I said it for the
first time I have posted it several times since.

Ron, My view is more agnostic than truly atheist. 
 However, let me explain my views to you in this way.  I don't mean to sound 
 offensive but I hope you follow the logic. You are actually very very close 
 to being an atheist. Out of all the countless thousands of deities that 
 humans have or currently worship in all their varieties you only believe in 
 _one_. When you understand why you don't believe in all the others you will 
 understand why I don't believe in any of them. 

Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/
"At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog
National Nature Reserve.


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