was:Monarchs now humanity

Hank Brodkin hbrodkin at cox.net
Mon Apr 11 16:16:09 EDT 2005

My last word - then back to butterflies:
One can believe in God, Allah, Buddha, or whomever without belonging to an organized religion.  I, being mostly uneducated, had never heard that quote from Mr. Paine. I guess I will have to read more of his works.
 I rebelled at an early age against the idea of organized religion.  In my mind no one has the authority to tell me what to believe, how to think, how to act or what is going to happen to me after I die.  Each individual has the God-given sense to figure those questions out for themselves.
That being said - the reason I admire pure science is that, in order to advance, real science has to continually question and challenge its precepts - or else it is not science, but dogma - as dogmatic as religion.  Which is why I believe in pure research and am never troubled by things like changing the genus and species of butterflies and other organisms if those changes are based on the scientific method.  So flail away taxonomists and others and blessed are ye who constantly seek after truth unrestricted by the anchors of the past!

Hank Brodkin
Carr Canyon, AZ
hbrodkin at cox.net
Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Patrick Foley 
  To: josylvestre at sympatico.ca 
  Cc: leps-l at lists.yale.edu 
  Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:26 PM
  Subject: Re: was:Monarchs now humanity

  My last word (for a long while I hope) on the subject of religion is actually that of an American icon, Thomas Paine.

  <>I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
  All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise. They have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving: it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.         Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

  yours in reason,

  Jonathan Sylvestre wrote:


    There is something that i dont like about religious people... They say lots of things but they never explain what they say...
    Because we are in a scientific list here, and because the subject interest me, i would like to ask you a question

    You said :

    "1) Only the human body is a part of nature. We are responsible for our the
    natural world because we are the only spiritual creature here."

    I though that we are nearly identical to all other organism (should i have to explain you what i mean by nearly identical..) on this planet so if we have a body that is a part of the nature and something else that is a part of you must know what... why butterflies and moth, bacteria, plants, squirels,... have not this somthing else thing ??? Is there a heaven for butterflies (other than a flowerfull little clearing) ??

    I like to get responses... its in my nature... but cant cahnge my mind because i have the immunity to religion too.

    what is religion ? an increadible number of interactions between neurones in the brain of "superiors" animals

    if you dont want to answer my questions... please do it for other people in the list

    Last thing

    please, stop calling living organism "creature"

    Jonathan Sylvestre

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