[Nhcoll-l] Formaldehyde and bone preservation
Dirk Neumann
dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de
Mon May 29 05:36:44 EDT 2017
Hi Simon,
absolutely agree that decalcification is a process with little or no
damage e.g. for larger long bones, but I have been told from our
colleagues in the palaeontology that even short formalin immersion
massively damages the surface structure e.g. on otoliths - at least this
seems to be the case in fish, but fish bones tend to be more fragile
anyway, so it might not be that much of an issue in mammals.
Lipids & oxidisation: good point!
With best wishes
Dirk
Am 29.05.2017 um 10:39 schrieb couteaufin at btinternet.com:
>
> I am holidaying in France and have just got a signal!
>
> Yes to nearly all of Dirk’s comments except that I don’t find that
> formalin fixation would even start to decalcify the inorganic matrix
> out of bones. Formalin fixation usually occurs from pH 7 down to pH 5
> but not below and for short-term immersion, enough to fix, this would
> not be an issue. In my experience I have found decalcified skeletons
> in whole mammals stored over a multi-year period in formalin and where
> the pH has dropped down to about pH 3, usually due to the lipid
> seepage and subsequent oxidation! However, this is rather academic
> relating to the main topic under discussion.
>
> I would certainly agree with the everything else that he said
> especially the problem of the fixed state of organs upsetting the use
> of enzymes &c.
>
>
> With all good wishes, Simon.
>
> Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
> Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
> www.natural-history-conservation.com
>
> *From: *David Katz <mailto:dckatz at ucdavis.edu>
> *Sent: *26 May 2017 19:51
> *To: *Dirk Neumann <mailto:dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de>
> *Cc: *nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: [Nhcoll-l] Formaldehyde and bone preservation
>
> Thanks everyone. We will stick with out original (non-formalin) plan.
> The reason for considering formalin is because these animals are
> potentially disease vectors. By "short" I meant fixation for a
> sufficient length of time that the tissue would be fixed. I was
> contrasting it with a situation where you might have an animal sitting
> in formalin for years (sometimes happens in anatomy classes for
> dissection specimens that don't get used).
>
> Really appreciate the help.
>
>
> David
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:59 AM, Dirk Neumann <dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de
> <mailto:dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de>> wrote:
>
> Dear David,
>
> because of the low pH formaldehyde decalcifies the the bones and
> can make (tiny) bones brittle. Also, because of the covalent
> bonding inside tissues, enzymatic degradation of tissues is
> hindered. Unbound formalin escaping during maceration from
> specimens could cause formaldehyde gas to get trapped under the
> lid of the maceration tank and might cause health issues when
> opening the tank.
>
> I am also not sure if "short" fixation would result in sufficient
> penetration into tissues, so you would need to expose the bodied
> for sufficient long time (depending on the size and amount of tissue)
>
> This would be the immediate concerns that jump into my mind, but
> there might be more.
>
> Hope this helps
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
> Am 26.05.2017 um 03:45 schrieb David Katz:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> We will have a number of medium bodied primate carcasses that
> we plan to macerate in order to preserve the skeletons. We've
> been told that fixing with formaldehyde prior to maceration
> can negatively affect the bones.
>
> What are the consequences? Is this an issue for both short and
> long duration fixation, or just long? Thanks very much.
>
>
> David
>
> --
>
> David C. Katz, Ph.D.
>
> Postdoctoral Fellow
>
> Benedikt Hallgrimsson Lab
>
> University of Calgary
>
> Research Associate
>
> Department of Anthropology
> University of California, Davis
>
> ResearchGate profile
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> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
>
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>
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>
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>
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> ---------
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel:+49-89-8107-111 <tel:+49%2089%208107111>
>
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> postal address:
>
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
>
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
>
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
>
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>
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>
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> --
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> David C. Katz, Ph.D.
>
> Postdoctoral Fellow
>
> Benedikt Hallgrimsson Lab
>
> University of Calgary
>
> Research Associate
>
> Department of Anthropology
> University of California, Davis
>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.researchgate.net_profile_David-5FKatz29&d=DwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=hKTRB4f5hDXDvXtePcuTY1X-2LfzlPtO4X-0ARo7Kfo&s=IwhJyiGD7icP-YaoaeIw5HJZUq9nFXcuHDx7Ul7ThoI&e=>
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--
Dirk Neumann
Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de
Postanschrift:
Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München
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---------
Dirk Neumann
Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de
postal address:
Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)
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