[Nhcoll-l] jar lids

Tue Feb 27 15:57:30 EST 2018

Even without liners and tape, we have had great success with the PP lids that we get from O'Berk.  If well sealed we see little to no evaporation over decades in our facility that regularly runs at 25-35% humidity.

Andy
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Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
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From: nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Jean-Marc Gagnon
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 2:42 PM
To: Dirk Neumann <dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de>; Mike Rutherford <Mike.Rutherford at sta.uwi.edu>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] jar lids

Dirk,

I was a little surprised by your response, promoting metal lids as opposed to Polypropylene lids. We (at CMN) have not had any success with metal lids, even with what seems to be reasonable, ethanol-resistant liners. Even the metal lids designed for Mason Jars, commonly used for preserves in North America, will rust after a while.

In all our fluid-preserved collections, we have been using with great success Polypropylene lids for decades (of course, with two full tread turns), along with the F217 PE liner and sealing tape (see Steigerwald and Laframboise (1996). TAPE APPLICATION: A JAR SEALING METHOD FOR REDUCING ETHANOL EVAPORATION IN FLUID-PRESERVED COLLECTIONS. Collection Forum Volume 12, Number 2).

While we haven't quantitatively measured that success, I can tell you that in our wet Mollusc Collection, prior to 2002, we would have many jars needing retopping after only a few years (they often only had the PP lids with no liner or tape). But after applying the standard I described above in 2002, we literally haven't had to retop the ethanol in any of the jars in the past 15-16 years.

Is it always perfect: No. But we have had very little failure in these lids and liners. The tape is always reapplied fresh if a jar needs to be open; it is relatively inexpensive (from Spectape Inc.) so that I not an issue.

I hope this helps.

Jean-Marc

Jean-Marc Gagnon, Ph.D.
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From: nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Dirk Neumann
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 5:45 AM
To: Mike Rutherford <Mike.Rutherford at sta.uwi.edu<mailto:Mike.Rutherford at sta.uwi.edu>>; nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] jar lids

Dear Mike,

depending on the climatic conditions inside you storage area and the holding fluid the specimens are stored in rusting of lids can be a major issue of course. However, because of the narrow thread of twist-off jars, I am not entirely sure of the metal lids can be easily replaced with plastic lids. The latter usually need higher threads because plastic lids tend to be deformed when screwed tight. This is the reason why jars with plastic lids normally have two fully closed thread turns, compared to jars with metal lids which usually only have half thread turns.

Moreover, plastic lids (e.g. PE or PP lids) do not form a good barrier against oxygen, and changing lids might increase or trigger oxidation issues inside jars.

My advice would be to look into modern metal lids designed for food industry to close jars with sour ingredients (compared to lids for sweet stuff such as jam or honey); these usually have thicker liners inside which protect lids against scratching. Also made bad experiences with (self-designed) PE-foil inlays, an earlier curator introduced in our collection: the foil is no good barrier against compounds evaporation from holding fluids, but a perfect trap to hold condensates inside a tiny, highly corrosive atmosphere lid and foil which tends to accelerate deterioration of metal lids.

Might be worth to check in the food sector for replacement lids or inquire such suppliers where to find 130mm lids.

All the best
Dirk

Am 21.02.2018 um 21:57 schrieb Mike Rutherford:
Hi,

I'm trying to source large polypropylene screw top lids for some glass jars I have in my museum. The jars are wide mouthed and squat, making them ideal for those weird shaped specimens but the current lids are thin metal ones which are corroding badly. My previous source for lids was Carolina Biological Supplies but their maximum size of lid is 120mm diameter and I need ones of 130mm diameter.

Can anyone suggest a supplier, preferably in the western hemisphere?

Cheers,
Mike

Mr. Mike G. Rutherford
Curator of the University of the West Indies Zoology Museum (UWIZM)
Department of Life Sciences
The University of The West Indies
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