[Nhcoll-l] [External] Re: [KU SUSPECT SPAM] Re: [EXTERN] Re: Collection management: trade or profession?
John E Simmons
simmons.johne at gmail.com
Fri Feb 23 15:16:44 EST 2024
I also agree with Andy.
While it is true that you can learn what you need to be a good collection
manager on the job, a degree in museum studies gives an immediate advantage
in terms of an overall understanding of museum history and function and
museum theory and practice. I have taught museum studies classes for 25
years at four universities on two continents (and was the Director of the
Museum Studies Program at the University of Kansas from 2201-2007) and have
tracked the progress of many students in the museum profession. The museum
studies degree gives a definite advantage. For those who already have a
masters or PhD and are looking at collection management as a career, I
strongly recommend getting at least a graduate certificate in museum
studies.
--John
John E. Simmons
Writer and Museum Consultant
Museologica
*and*
Investigador Asociado, Departamento de Ornitologia
Museo de Historia Natural, Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, Lima
On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 2:32 PM Tacker, Christopher <
christopher.tacker at naturalsciences.org> wrote:
> I have to second Andy Bentley -"skills that require a high level of
> competency and training." The vibe I get from the Ivory Tower is that
> "anyone can do that." After trying to salvage academics' collections when
> they retire, I can assure you that not everyone can do the job.
>
> It is a profession with a proud history. I'm like the idea of
> certifications or training that will allow us to argue for higher pay for
> our Collection Managers and staff.
>
> Chris Tacker
>
>
> Chris Tacker* (he, him, his)*
> Research Curator, Geology | Ph.D.
> North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences | 11 West Jones Street |
> Raleigh, NC 27601-1029
> http://www.naturalsciences.org/
>
>
> NC Department of Natural and Cultural Resources <https://www.ncdcr.gov/>
> Office: 919-707-9941
> christopher.tacker at naturalsciences.org
>
> *Email correspondence to and from this address is subject to the North
> Carolina Public*
> *Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties*
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of
> Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 23, 2024 2:22 PM
> *To:* Liath Appleton <liathappleton at gmail.com>; Dirk Neumann <
> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
> *Cc:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject:* [External] Re: [Nhcoll-l] [KU SUSPECT SPAM] Re: [EXTERN] Re:
> Collection management: trade or profession?
>
> CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless
> verified. Report suspicious emails with the Report Message button located
> on your Outlook menu bar on the Home tab.
>
> A Museum Studies Master’s degree is exactly that. Provides a theoretical
> and practical basis for collection management. This is however only one
> route into collection management.
>
>
>
> Its is also safe to say that the “profession” of collection management has
> changed dramatically over the last 15-20 years with a lot of emphasis on
> digital skills – databases, digitization, data manipulation, imaging, data
> publishing, etc. – skills that require a high level of competency and
> training.
>
>
>
> Andy
>
> A : A : A :
> }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
> V V V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
>
> Dyche Hall
> 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> USA
>
> Tel: (785) 864-3863
> Fax: (785) 864-5335
> Email: abentley at ku.edu
>
> ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
>
> http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu
>
> A : A : A :
> }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
> V V V
>
>
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> *On Behalf Of *Liath
> Appleton
> *Sent:* Friday, February 23, 2024 12:00 PM
> *To:* Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
> *Cc:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* [KU SUSPECT SPAM] Re: [Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Re: Collection
> management: trade or profession?
>
>
>
> Librarians are very similar to Collections Managers. How are Librarians
> classified? In the US, qualifications vary, but I think most positions
> require a master's degree in Library Sciences. That is not an option for
> Collections Managers, at least not yet.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 11:54 AM Dirk Neumann <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>
> wrote:
>
> aha - more details to answer the question.
>
> Payment-wise, there is a difference at least in Germany:
>
>
>
> A profound technical educated BTA would receive a higher payment level
> then a biology bachelor that did not continue to complete the masters
> degree. The same applies for good amateurs (e.g. in entomology), which
> often are highly, skilled, but do not have the 'technical education' that
> would lift them onto a higher payment level.
>
>
>
> The payment level for a researcher in Germany is E13 (curator), that of an
> BTA is E9, and that of a bachelor or amateur may start at E6 or E8.
>
> A professional (master) gardener in a botanic garden however may start at
> E5 or E6, even though the degree as a trade master as recognised profession
> is equivalent at least with a bachelor's degree at university.
>
>
>
> Another problem that we have is that at the moment, there is no such
> education as 'collection manager' you could graduate from. In the US and
> here in Europe, there are Museum Studies programmes, but this is something
> different. A good starting point would be having the possibility to qualify
> as a proper 'collection manager' as profession. Senckenberg in Frankfurt
> does this. Perhaps this would be a suited example for your test case?
>
>
>
> With best wishes
>
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 23.02.2024 um 18:40 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
>
> ACHTUNG/ATTENTION: Diese E-Mail stammt von einem externen Absender. /
> This e-mail comes from an external sender.
>
>
>
> Part of the reason for the question is to bring these words into focus.
> For some folks, "professional" simply means "paid," and not "amateur."
> That's not its actual meaning, though - there are no amateur surgeons or
> professional carpenters.
>
>
>
> The distinction is important, because we should be thinking harder about
> creating more pathways into museum collections management. At present, the
> requirements and compensation vary so widely between individual
> institutions that it's impossible to say whether this is something that
> someone with, say, a high school diploma or an associate's degree could
> aspire to. If it isn't - if to be a CM you need a master's or PhD or
> "equivalent" - then it's a profession, and we are likely to see the same
> demographic as in the other professions. At least we would, if being a CM
> paid like being a doctor or lawyer...
>
>
>
> *Paul Callomon*
> *Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates*
> ------------------------------
>
> *Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, Philadelphia*
> *callomon at ansp.org <callomon at ansp.org> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 215-299-1170*
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>
> <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Douglas Yanega
> <dyanega at gmail.com> <dyanega at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 23, 2024 12:31 PM
> *To:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Collection management: trade or profession?
>
>
>
> *External.*
>
> On 2/23/24 8:34 AM, Callomon,Paul wrote:
>
>
> - Is collection management a trade or a profession? What's the
> difference?
>
> I imagine that most people you asked "What's the difference between a
> trade and a profession?" could not give a clear and coherent answer
> discriminating between them. If I had not seen the definitions you posted,
> I don't think I could have answered this question, myself, despite 25 years
> as a collection manager. Frankly, off the top of my head, I would have said
> that a profession is what you get paid to do - i.e., that's what
> distinguishes a professional from an amateur. In that sense, trade and
> profession are synonymous, since I can't imagine calling something a trade
> if it is not a source of income.
>
>
>
> I'm not disputing the definitions you gave, just saying that that
> particular distinction is not intuitive, given the various uses of the word
> "professional".
>
>
>
> Peace.
>
> --
>
> Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum
>
> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 skype: dyanega
>
> phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>
> https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
>
> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
>
> is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
>
>
>
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> --
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> ******
>
>
>
> *Dirk Neumann*
>
> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>
>
>
> Postal address:
>
> *Museum of Nature Hamburg*
> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>
> of Biodiversity Change
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
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>
> 20146 Hamburg
> +49 40 238 317 – 628
>
> *d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>*
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> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels
> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>
> Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;
> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
> Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)
> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160 in Bonn
> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
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> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
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