[Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Re: Desktop thermal printers?
Ian Engelbrecht
ianicus.za at gmail.com
Tue Apr 14 14:58:46 EDT 2026
Also, just continuing the aging acceleration discussion, what would be
tremendously helpful would be a way to accelerate whatever process is going
on which causes the *laser *printed letters to separate from the
paper/substrate they're attached to. That might be a good student project
in itself - working out what happens over time that causes that separation
so we can understand and mitigate or avoid that process.
Ian
On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 8:56 PM Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com>
wrote:
> We have a similar experiment here. I printed labels on several different
> archival papers, including Teslin, 'goatskin', and others, all with an
> Epson EcoTank Mono 1100, and distributed copies to wet collections around
> the country. They're all sitting in jars on windowsills now (or at least I
> hope they are).
>
> Ian
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 6:00 PM Kendrick Fowler <kendrickorion at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Along with running labels through a tumbler or shaker of some kind, I
>> think that exposing labels to light and heat (along the lines of Andy's
>> window ledge test) could be useful and interesting for accelerated aging
>> experiments.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I have been running a not-very-scientific test
>> similar to Andy's with labels made using my lab's inkjet printer, albeit
>> for much less time; the vials have been sitting in my window for ~5 years.
>> So far, the labels have remained perfectly readable, and the text printed
>> by the inkjet appears to have held up equally as well as text handwritten
>> on the labels using a black Pigma Micron pen (though both the inkjet
>> printed and the handwritten text appear to have faded slightly). The labels
>> were printed on Enduro Xerographic 100% cotton paper using an Epson ET-4750
>> EcoTank printer filled with Epson T5021 black ink, and the Micron pen was
>> Sakura stock # XSDK005-49.
>>
>> Kendrick
>>
>>
>> *Kendrick Fowler*, *Entomology Lab Manager*
>> Hawthorne Valley Farmscape Ecology Program | hvfarmscape.org
>> +1 (518) 672-7994 (office) | +1 (267) 377-7567 (cell)
>>
>> *Follow us** on Facebook
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>> on **Columbia County's natural **wonders**.*
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 12:24 AM Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just adding my own angle - the tests described in my publication
>>> involved tubes being shaked for hours in a laboratory shaker. Actually
>>> sounds to me less rough, motion-wise, than a washing machine... I did add
>>> glass spheres (no sharp angles) to the mix, though.
>>>
>>> However, the comments re: problems of accelerated aging are, of course,
>>> valid. They are valid also for accelerated aging tests in fields other than
>>> fluid collection labels. One way I dealt with that was shortening test
>>> times from 1 month (as pee the "classic" Oddy Test) to 48 hours.
>>>
>>> In any case, I consider all of the comments here very valuable to
>>> shsping future testing. I have sent an email to a person at the IPI (thanks
>>> for the contact, Rob! Fabian, I'll follow yours, too!). If they reply, I'd
>>> be happy to gather a think-tank team to discuss the subject with them.
>>>
>>> Gali
>>>
>>> Gali Beiner (ACR)
>>> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
>>> National Natural History Collections
>>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>>> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
>>> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>>> Fax. 972-2-6585785
>>> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>*
>>>
>>> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>*
>>>
>>> בתאריך יום ג׳, 14 באפר׳ 2026, 00:39, מאת Dirk Neumann <
>>> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> before we introduced our gill tags for a major field survey, I tagged
>>>> small fish (2cm) with approx. 1cm gill tags, but them in PE-bottles with
>>>> formalin, and put them into a washing machine running the full cold wash
>>>> programme (no heat, but 'bumpy road' conditions.
>>>>
>>>> Think that matches Andy's idea of a rock tumbler quite well.
>>>>
>>>> The HP 600 ink jet labels on 100 g/m2 transparent paper preformed best
>>>> (as already said in this thread: ink jet printing boils the ink and shoots
>>>> it into the paper). Gill tags also stayed in place (second level of
>>>> testing).
>>>>
>>>> We had perfect performance even on very bumpy off-road tracks in
>>>> central Africa.
>>>>
>>>> Just an idea ...
>>>>
>>>> With best wishes
>>>> Dirk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 13.04.2026 um 17:20 schrieb Robert Waller:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Andy,
>>>> You are right that accelerated aging tests can be misleading. I am not
>>>> sure that is what would be wanted. Just having casually read the messages
>>>> though, I thought that some guidance on specification of papers and inks
>>>> might be useful. For example, where print simply floated off the paper when
>>>> immersed, I might guess that could be a result of using a clay coated
>>>> paper. That is just a guess as I do not have expertise in either printers
>>>> or papers. It just seemed that we might clarify, even simplify, our
>>>> understandings by communicating with the people who have expertise in that.
>>>> IPI would seem a good place to start.
>>>> Perhaps I should have explained that to start.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu> <abentley at ku.edu>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2026 10:44 AM
>>>> *To:* Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>>> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>; Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
>>>> <rw at protectheritage.com>
>>>> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>>>>
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> I think the rub (pun intended) with accelerated aging tests is that
>>>> they can over-express real-world scenarios. A thermal transfer printer
>>>> label (or any label for that matter) inserted into a glass jar, is going to
>>>> be subject to limited abrasion and, as such, any accelerated aging test
>>>> that uses physical abrasion as its main mechanism of aging is not going to
>>>> be an accurate representation of real word effects in my opinion. Maybe
>>>> placing a jar of alcohol with specimen and label in the equivalent of a
>>>> rock tumbler would more closely approximate a real-world scenario.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> A : A : A :
>>>> }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
>>>> V V V
>>>> Andy Bentley
>>>> Ichthyology Collection Manager
>>>> University of Kansas
>>>> Biodiversity Institute
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>Dyche
>>>> Hall
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>*1345
>>>> Jayhawk Boulevard
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>*
>>>> *Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>*
>>>> *USA
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>*
>>>>
>>>> Tel: *(785) 864-3863* <%28785%29%20864-3863>
>>>> Fax: *(785) 864-5335* <%28785%29%20864-5335>
>>>> Email: *abentley at ku.edu* <abentley at ku.edu>
>>>>
>>>> ORCID: *https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258*
>>>> <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258>
>>>>
>>>> *http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu*
>>>> <http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
>>>>
>>>> A : A : A :
>>>> }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
>>>> V V V
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Gali Beiner
>>>> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 12, 2026 1:06 AM
>>>> *To:* Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com> <rw at protectheritage.com>
>>>> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>>>>
>>>> Hi Rob and all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not familiar with task groups in SPNHC, so somebody who already
>>>> works with one will have to explain to me how that works, but
>>>> generally speaking - the main problem here is formulating the right kind of
>>>> question to answer in a scientific research. In fact, it crosses my mind
>>>> that if anybody here has a contact within the Image Permanence Institute,
>>>> I'd be happy to get in touch (IPI, according to its own vision, is
>>>> "dedicated to supporting the preservation of cultural heritage collections
>>>> in libraries, archives, and museums around the world").
>>>>
>>>> Possibly the study question should be about finding the most permanent
>>>> printer-ink-substrate combo (for ethanol?) in each category (laser, inkjet,
>>>> thermal transfer), and then comparing categories. This would involve
>>>> thinking about *the best ways to test permanence for labels in fluids* -
>>>> for example, in my own published paper I presented a form of accelerated
>>>> aging as a testing method. What would be the best way for testing, other
>>>> than waiting 50-100 years? Maybe discussing this with people at the Image
>>>> Permanence Institute could help.
>>>>
>>>> Gali
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 5:18 PM Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gali,
>>>> Your suggestion "to understand the "recipe" as much as possible" seems
>>>> a very good idea.
>>>> If you or someone else decides to initiate a task group within SPNHC to
>>>> take that on, I suggest you reach out to archives and paper conservators
>>>> through their discussion groups as they may already have useful information
>>>> available. Perhaps the subject could be suggested as a good research
>>>> project for a conservation student. That is, a compilation of information
>>>> combined with some experimentation for validation.
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Gali
>>>> Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 09, 2026 4:17 PM
>>>> *To:* Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com>
>>>> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>>>>
>>>> Redesigning is already happening: new tech pops in, for example the
>>>> thermal transfer printers are new compared to inkjets, and new substrates
>>>> are also being developed.
>>>>
>>>> One way to deal with inevitable change is to understand the "recipe" as
>>>> much as possible and seek out the "cleaner" products - as in the case of
>>>> "OBA free, acid free, lignin free" etc paper or understanding which types
>>>> of toners are likely to be more permanent. Understanding the technology as
>>>> much as possible and testing what we can may help narrow down choices and
>>>> set clearer standards. The other way is to remain out of it and use
>>>> handwritten labels, but it seems that all of us regard this option mostly
>>>> as a ship that has sailed: too hard to get the workforce to do it.
>>>>
>>>> Gali
>>>>
>>>> Gali Beiner (ACR)
>>>> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
>>>> National Natural History Collections
>>>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>>>> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
>>>> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>>>> Fax. 972-2-6585785
>>>> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>>> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en* <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>
>>>>
>>>> בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 21:49, מאת Ian Engelbrecht <
>>>> ianicus.za at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> Plus the fact that things change over time. HP printer - toner - paper
>>>> combination might work now, but will it still 30 years from now when
>>>> they’ve redesigned one or three of those components?
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 09 Apr 2026 at 18:20, Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Doug is pointing out the heart of the problem - the variety of printing
>>>> combinations which makes comparisons difficult.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, the variations in the way printer-ink-subsrate (paper or
>>>> other) combinations work is the main reason why manufacturers recommend
>>>> using their own brand for all three parts of the combo. In other words, the
>>>> manufacturers say HP printers are supposed to yield better, more permanent
>>>> results with original HP toners and HP specialized paper. The same goes for
>>>> Canon, Epson or any other brand. Testing according to conservation
>>>> parameters can work with that - or at least look very carefully into what,
>>>> exactly is chosen for use (eg paper - OBA free, lignin free etc etc).
>>>>
>>>> The way things stand now - with endless possible variations and
>>>> combinations - basically means it is up to us to try and set the criteria
>>>> of choice and monitor whether that works. Not easy, but possibly we can
>>>> try.
>>>>
>>>> Gali
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gali Beiner (ACR)
>>>> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
>>>> National Natural History Collections
>>>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>>>> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
>>>> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>>>> Fax. 972-2-6585785
>>>> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>>> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en* <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>
>>>>
>>>> בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 18:46, מאת Douglas Yanega <
>>>> dyanega at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> On 4/8/26 11:38 PM, Gali Beiner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Other than that, I think that maybe we could use this forum to up the
>>>> level of testing a bit - after all we have a pool of collection
>>>> professionals here, all with the same problem to solve re:labels for wet
>>>> collections (mainly alcohol but also other). Why shouldn't we gather
>>>> ourselves into a group of say 5 to 10 people in different collections and
>>>> agree on some sort of protocol for different labels in each collection (or
>>>> maybe sets of different labels to be tested in all collections, we could
>>>> consider the details) - and have this followed both in the short and long
>>>> terms? That would be more interesting than any individual test. Dear
>>>> readers in this forum, how does this sound to you?
>>>>
>>>> Compilation of different people's experiences have been done here and
>>>> elsewhere with some regularity, and one thing that is a universal
>>>> impediment to generating a coherent picture is the variability of the
>>>> medium that is being printed on. Comparisons of different printers are
>>>> nearly meaningless if the "tests" are on different paper stock.
>>>>
>>>> The most dramatic example I can offer is one from personal experience:
>>>> back in 1990, we obtained a Laserjet, a fairly new technology at that time,
>>>> and printed thousands of labels for both dry and ethanol specimens. The
>>>> first several months everything worked flawlessly, and to this day, almost
>>>> 40 years on, those original labels are perfectly fine, even the ones stored
>>>> in ethanol. Then one day we ran out of the existing stock of paper, bought
>>>> a new ream, and loaded it into the printer without changing anything else.
>>>> The lettering on those labels chipped, flaked, and rubbed off the dry
>>>> labels, and when we tried to put them into ethanol, the letters floated
>>>> off. No alteration of settings was involved, and nothing we did made the
>>>> labels viable. That is, until we checked the packaging on the original
>>>> ream; we found it was not the exact same thing that we had switched to, so
>>>> we bought something IDENTICAL, and the resulting labels were just fine
>>>> again. The problem had literally nothing to do with the printer, and
>>>> everything to do with the paper.
>>>>
>>>> Again, any "test" that does not control for the medium will not be a
>>>> fair and objective test of the merits of a printer.
>>>>
>>>> We presently use an HP Laser printer, and yes, we have had to try
>>>> different types of paper to find paper stocks that work well with this
>>>> printer. Not all do. Even worse, when we use "replacement" toner cartridges
>>>> (not the official HP brand), sometimes *but not always*, the printing
>>>> is slightly flaky and easily abraded. That means there are at least THREE
>>>> parameters that need to be controlled: the printer, the medium, and the
>>>> toner. Variation in any one of those three can lead to variation in the
>>>> quality of the results. This makes objective assessment and testing
>>>> *very* difficult, and ultimately it's just a litany of anecdotes.
>>>>
>>>> Peace,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum
>>>> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 phone: 951-827-4315
>>>> FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>>>> https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
>>>> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
>>>> is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
>>>>
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>>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
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>>>> --
>>>> Gali Beiner (ACR)
>>>> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
>>>> National Natural History Collections
>>>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>>>> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
>>>> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>>>> Fax. 972-2-6585785
>>>> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>>> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en* <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>
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>>>> ******
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>>>>
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>>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
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>>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
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