[Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Re: Desktop thermal printers?

Tue Apr 14 15:30:43 EDT 2026

Yes, identifying the agents of deterioration is a key first step.  Is it abrasion, immersion, light, temperature, chemical change, etc.?  How do you control for these or simulate aging in a real-world scenario.

Agree that this would be a great student project that maybe the SPNHC Faber grant could help with.  I will shop it around to our museum studies students here at KU to see if anyone would be interested.  Would also make a great SPNHC publication.

Andy

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Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute

Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA

Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
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________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2026 1:58 PM
To: Kendrick Fowler <kendrickorion at gmail.com>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Re: Desktop thermal printers?

Also, just continuing the aging acceleration discussion, what would be tremendously helpful would be a way to accelerate whatever process is going on which causes the laser printed letters to separate from the paper/substrate they're attached to. That might be a good student project in itself - working out what happens over time that causes that separation so we can understand and mitigate or avoid that process.

Ian

On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 8:56 PM Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com<mailto:ianicus.za at gmail.com>> wrote:
We have a similar experiment here. I printed labels on several different archival papers, including Teslin, 'goatskin', and others, all with an Epson EcoTank Mono 1100, and distributed copies to wet collections around the country. They're all sitting in jars on windowsills now (or at least I hope they are).

Ian

On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 6:00 PM Kendrick Fowler <kendrickorion at gmail.com<mailto:kendrickorion at gmail.com>> wrote:
Along with running labels through a tumbler or shaker of some kind, I think that exposing labels to light and heat (along the lines of Andy's window ledge test) could be useful and interesting for accelerated aging experiments.

For what it's worth, I have been running a not-very-scientific test similar to Andy's with labels made using my lab's inkjet printer, albeit for much less time; the vials have been sitting in my window for ~5 years. So far, the labels have remained perfectly readable, and the text printed by the inkjet appears to have held up equally as well as text handwritten on the labels using a black Pigma Micron pen (though both the inkjet printed and the handwritten text appear to have faded slightly). The labels were printed on Enduro Xerographic 100% cotton paper using an Epson ET-4750 EcoTank printer filled with Epson T5021 black ink, and the Micron pen was Sakura stock # XSDK005-49.

Kendrick

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On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 12:24 AM Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
Just adding my own angle - the tests described in my publication involved tubes being shaked for hours in a laboratory shaker. Actually sounds to me less rough, motion-wise, than a washing machine... I did add glass spheres (no sharp angles) to the mix, though.

However, the comments re: problems of accelerated aging are, of course, valid. They are valid also for accelerated aging tests in fields other than fluid collection labels. One way I dealt with that was shortening test times from 1 month (as pee the "classic" Oddy Test) to 48 hours.

In any case, I consider all of the comments here very valuable to shsping future testing. I have sent an email to a person at the IPI (thanks for the contact, Rob! Fabian, I'll follow yours, too!). If they reply, I'd be happy to gather a think-tank team to discuss the subject with them.

Gali

[https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download]Gali Beiner (ACR)
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
National Natural History Collections
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Fax. 972-2-6585785
gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en

בתאריך יום ג׳, 14 באפר׳ 2026, 00:39, מאת Dirk Neumann ‏<d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de<mailto:d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>>:
Hi all,

before we introduced our gill tags for a major field survey, I tagged small fish (2cm) with approx. 1cm gill tags, but them in PE-bottles with formalin, and put them into a washing machine running the full cold wash programme (no heat, but 'bumpy road' conditions.

Think that matches Andy's idea of a rock tumbler quite well.

The HP 600 ink jet labels on 100 g/m2 transparent paper preformed best (as already said in this thread: ink jet printing boils the ink and shoots it into the paper). Gill tags also stayed in place (second level of testing).

We had perfect performance even on very bumpy off-road tracks in central Africa.

Just an idea ...

With best wishes
Dirk

Am 13.04.2026 um 17:20 schrieb Robert Waller:
Hi Andy,
You are right that accelerated aging tests can be misleading. I am not sure that is what would be wanted. Just having casually read the messages though, I thought that some guidance on specification of papers and inks might be useful. For example, where print simply floated off the paper when immersed, I might guess that could be a result of using a clay coated paper. That is just a guess as I do not have expertise in either printers or papers. It just seemed that we might clarify, even simplify, our understandings by communicating with the people who have expertise in that. IPI would seem a good place to start.
Perhaps I should have explained that to start.
Best,
Rob

________________________________
From: Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu><mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2026 10:44 AM
To: Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il><mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>; Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com><mailto:rw at protectheritage.com>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?

Hi all

I think the rub (pun intended) with accelerated aging tests is that they can over-express real-world scenarios.  A thermal transfer printer label (or any label for that matter) inserted into a glass jar, is going to be subject to limited abrasion and, as such, any accelerated aging test that uses physical abrasion as its main mechanism of aging is not going to be an accurate representation of real word effects in my opinion.  Maybe placing a jar of alcohol with specimen and label in the equivalent of a rock tumbler would more closely approximate a real-world scenario.

Andy

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Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
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ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258

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From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il><mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2026 1:06 AM
To: Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com><mailto:rw at protectheritage.com>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu><mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?

Hi Rob and all,

I'm not familiar with task groups in SPNHC, so somebody who already works with one will have to explain to me how that works, but generally speaking - the main problem here is formulating the right kind of question to answer in a scientific research. In fact, it crosses my mind that if anybody here has a contact within the Image Permanence Institute, I'd be happy to get in touch (IPI, according to its own vision, is "dedicated to supporting the preservation of cultural heritage collections in libraries, archives, and museums around the world").

Possibly the study question should be about finding the most permanent printer-ink-substrate combo (for ethanol?) in each category (laser, inkjet, thermal transfer), and then comparing categories. This would involve thinking about the best ways to test permanence for labels in fluids - for example, in my own published paper I presented a form of accelerated aging as a testing method. What would be the best way for testing, other than waiting 50-100 years? Maybe discussing this with people at the Image Permanence Institute could help.

Gali

On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 5:18 PM Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com<mailto:rw at protectheritage.com>> wrote:
Hi Gali,
Your suggestion "to understand the "recipe" as much as possible" seems a very good idea.
If you or someone else decides to initiate a task group within SPNHC to take that on, I suggest you reach out to archives and paper conservators through their discussion groups as they may already have useful information available. Perhaps the subject could be suggested as a good research project for a conservation student. That is, a compilation of information combined with some experimentation for validation.
Rob

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From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2026 4:17 PM
To: Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com<mailto:ianicus.za at gmail.com>>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?

Redesigning is already happening: new tech pops in, for example the thermal transfer printers are new compared to inkjets, and new substrates are also being developed.

One way to deal with inevitable change is to understand the "recipe" as much as possible and seek out the "cleaner" products - as in the case of "OBA free, acid free, lignin free" etc paper or understanding which types of toners are likely to be more permanent. Understanding the technology as much as possible and testing what we can may help narrow down choices and set clearer standards. The other way is to remain out of it and use handwritten labels, but it seems that all of us regard this option mostly as a ship that has sailed: too hard to get the workforce to do it.

Gali

[https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download]Gali Beiner (ACR)
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
National Natural History Collections
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Fax. 972-2-6585785
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https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en

בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 21:49, מאת Ian Engelbrecht ‏<ianicus.za at gmail.com<mailto:ianicus.za at gmail.com>>:
Plus the fact that things change over time. HP printer - toner - paper combination might work now, but will it still 30 years from now when they’ve redesigned one or three of those components?

Ian

On Thu, 09 Apr 2026 at 18:20, Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
Doug is pointing out the heart of the problem - the variety of printing combinations which makes comparisons difficult.

In fact, the variations in the way printer-ink-subsrate (paper or other) combinations work is the main reason why manufacturers recommend using their own brand for all three parts of the combo. In other words, the manufacturers say HP printers are supposed to yield better, more permanent results with original HP toners and HP specialized paper. The same goes for Canon, Epson or any other brand. Testing according to conservation parameters can work with that - or at least look very carefully into what, exactly is chosen for use (eg paper - OBA free, lignin free etc etc).

The way things stand now - with endless possible variations and combinations - basically means it is up to us to try and set the criteria of choice and monitor whether that works. Not easy, but possibly we can try.

Gali

[https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download]Gali Beiner (ACR)
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
National Natural History Collections
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Fax. 972-2-6585785
gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en

בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 18:46, מאת Douglas Yanega ‏<dyanega at gmail.com<mailto:dyanega at gmail.com>>:
On 4/8/26 11:38 PM, Gali Beiner wrote:
Other than that, I think that maybe we could use this forum to up the level of testing a bit - after all we have a pool of collection professionals here, all with the same problem to solve re:labels for wet collections (mainly alcohol but also other). Why shouldn't we gather ourselves into a group of say 5 to 10 people in different collections and agree on some sort of protocol for different labels in each collection (or maybe sets of different labels to be tested in all collections, we could consider the details)  - and have this followed both in the short and long terms? That would be more interesting than any individual test. Dear readers in this forum, how does this sound to you?

Compilation of different people's experiences have been done here and elsewhere with some regularity, and one thing that is a universal impediment to generating a coherent picture is the variability of the medium that is being printed on. Comparisons of different printers are nearly meaningless if the "tests" are on different paper stock.

The most dramatic example I can offer is one from personal experience: back in 1990, we obtained a Laserjet, a fairly new technology at that time, and printed thousands of labels for both dry and ethanol specimens. The first several months everything worked flawlessly, and to this day, almost 40 years on, those original labels are perfectly fine, even the ones stored in ethanol. Then one day we ran out of the existing stock of paper, bought a new ream, and loaded it into the printer without changing anything else. The lettering on those labels chipped, flaked, and rubbed off the dry labels, and when we tried to put them into ethanol, the letters floated off. No alteration of settings was involved, and nothing we did made the labels viable. That is, until we checked the packaging on the original ream; we found it was not the exact same thing that we had switched to, so we bought something IDENTICAL, and the resulting labels were just fine again. The problem had literally nothing to do with the printer, and everything to do with the paper.

Again, any "test" that does not control for the medium will not be a fair and objective test of the merits of a printer.

We presently use an HP Laser printer, and yes, we have had to try different types of paper to find paper stocks that work well with this printer. Not all do. Even worse, when we use "replacement" toner cartridges (not the official HP brand), sometimes but not always, the printing is slightly flaky and easily abraded. That means there are at least THREE parameters that need to be controlled: the printer, the medium, and the toner. Variation in any one of those three can lead to variation in the quality of the results. This makes objective assessment and testing very difficult, and ultimately it's just a litany of anecdotes.

Peace,

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National Natural History Collections
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Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Fax. 972-2-6585785
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