[Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Re: Desktop thermal printers?

Gali Beiner gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il
Wed Apr 15 04:22:09 EDT 2026


All this sounds great!  Having student(s) working on the subject will do
much to forward research and maybe reach a point where some helpful
guidelines can be given. The subject is pretty complex, so possibly either
different students take up different aspects to be combined at a later
stage, or a PhD student takes up in-depth research?

One thing that crosses my mind after reading all the posts is that with
such a number of individual "not exactly scientific but still very valuable
test conditions" out there, maybe we could set up a digital followup space.
Would you guys like me to ask the relevant SPNHC folks if they can offer
such a "space" for people to note their ongoing experiment, along with the
printer-ink-substrate combo they have involved and other points of
interest, so everyone can report and make notes over time? I could
construct a suitable format for making such things readable (a table or
suchlike). If such a thing is made available, we pop the link in here and
in other places once in a while to encourage more people to join with their
info over time.

Gali


On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 10:30 PM Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
wrote:

> Yes, identifying the agents of deterioration is a key first step.  Is it
> abrasion, immersion, light, temperature, chemical change, etc.?  How do you
> control for these or simulate aging in a real-world scenario.
>
> Agree that this would be a great student project that maybe the SPNHC
> Faber grant could help with.  I will shop it around to our museum studies
> students here at KU to see if anyone would be interested.  Would also make
> a great SPNHC publication.
>
> Andy
>
>     A  :             A  :             A  :
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>     V                V                V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
>
> Dyche Hall
> *1345 Jayhawk Boulevard*
> *Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561*
> *USA*
>
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>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Ian
> Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 14, 2026 1:58 PM
> *To:* Kendrick Fowler <kendrickorion at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Re: Desktop thermal printers?
>
> Also, just continuing the aging acceleration discussion, what would be
> tremendously helpful would be a way to accelerate whatever process is going
> on which causes the *laser *printed letters to separate from the
> paper/substrate they're attached to. That might be a good student project
> in itself - working out what happens over time that causes that separation
> so we can understand and mitigate or avoid that process.
>
> Ian
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 8:56 PM Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> We have a similar experiment here. I printed labels on several different
> archival papers, including Teslin, 'goatskin', and others, all with an
> Epson EcoTank Mono 1100, and distributed copies to wet collections around
> the country. They're all sitting in jars on windowsills now (or at least I
> hope they are).
>
> Ian
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 6:00 PM Kendrick Fowler <kendrickorion at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Along with running labels through a tumbler or shaker of some kind, I
> think that exposing labels to light and heat (along the lines of Andy's
> window ledge test) could be useful and interesting for accelerated aging
> experiments.
>
> For what it's worth, I have been running a not-very-scientific test
> similar to Andy's with labels made using my lab's inkjet printer, albeit
> for much less time; the vials have been sitting in my window for ~5 years.
> So far, the labels have remained perfectly readable, and the text printed
> by the inkjet appears to have held up equally as well as text handwritten
> on the labels using a black Pigma Micron pen (though both the inkjet
> printed and the handwritten text appear to have faded slightly). The labels
> were printed on Enduro Xerographic 100% cotton paper using an Epson ET-4750
> EcoTank printer filled with Epson T5021 black ink, and the Micron pen was
> Sakura stock # XSDK005-49.
>
> Kendrick
>
>
> *Kendrick Fowler*, *Entomology Lab Manager*
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>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 12:24 AM Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
> wrote:
>
> Just adding my own angle - the tests described in my publication involved
> tubes being shaked for hours in a laboratory shaker. Actually sounds to me
> less rough, motion-wise, than a washing machine... I did add glass spheres
> (no sharp angles) to the mix, though.
>
> However, the comments re: problems of accelerated aging are, of course,
> valid. They are valid also for accelerated aging tests in fields other than
> fluid collection labels. One way I dealt with that was shortening test
> times from 1 month (as pee the "classic" Oddy Test) to 48 hours.
>
> In any case, I consider all of the comments here very valuable to shsping
> future testing. I have sent an email to a person at the IPI (thanks for the
> contact, Rob! Fabian, I'll follow yours, too!). If they reply, I'd be happy
> to gather a think-tank team to discuss the subject with them.
>
> Gali
>
> Gali Beiner (ACR)
> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
> National Natural History Collections
> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> Fax. 972-2-6585785
> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>*
>
> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en> *
>
> בתאריך יום ג׳, 14 באפר׳ 2026, 00:39, מאת Dirk Neumann ‏<
> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> before we introduced our gill tags for a major field survey, I tagged
> small fish (2cm) with approx. 1cm gill tags, but them in PE-bottles with
> formalin, and put them into a washing machine running the full cold wash
> programme (no heat, but 'bumpy road' conditions.
>
> Think that matches Andy's idea of a rock tumbler quite well.
>
> The HP 600 ink jet labels on 100 g/m2 transparent paper preformed best (as
> already said in this thread: ink jet printing boils the ink and shoots it
> into the paper). Gill tags also stayed in place (second level of testing).
>
> We had perfect performance even on very bumpy off-road tracks in central
> Africa.
>
> Just an idea ...
>
> With best wishes
> Dirk
>
>
> Am 13.04.2026 um 17:20 schrieb Robert Waller:
>
> Hi Andy,
> You are right that accelerated aging tests can be misleading. I am not
> sure that is what would be wanted. Just having casually read the messages
> though, I thought that some guidance on specification of papers and inks
> might be useful. For example, where print simply floated off the paper when
> immersed, I might guess that could be a result of using a clay coated
> paper. That is just a guess as I do not have expertise in either printers
> or papers. It just seemed that we might clarify, even simplify, our
> understandings by communicating with the people who have expertise in that.
> IPI would seem a good place to start.
> Perhaps I should have explained that to start.
> Best,
> Rob
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu> <abentley at ku.edu>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2026 10:44 AM
> *To:* Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>; Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
> <rw at protectheritage.com>
> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>
> Hi all
>
> I think the rub (pun intended) with accelerated aging tests is that they
> can over-express real-world scenarios.  A thermal transfer printer label
> (or any label for that matter) inserted into a glass jar, is going to be
> subject to limited abrasion and, as such, any accelerated aging test that
> uses physical abrasion as its main mechanism of aging is not going to be an
> accurate representation of real word effects in my opinion.  Maybe placing
> a jar of alcohol with specimen and label in the equivalent of a rock
> tumbler would more closely approximate a real-world scenario.
>
> Andy
>
>     A  :             A  :             A  :
>  }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
>     V                V                V
> Andy Bentley
> Ichthyology Collection Manager
> University of Kansas
> Biodiversity Institute
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>Dyche
> Hall
>
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>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>
> <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Gali Beiner
> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 12, 2026 1:06 AM
> *To:* Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com> <rw at protectheritage.com>
> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>
> Hi Rob and all,
>
> I'm not familiar with task groups in SPNHC, so somebody who already works
> with one will have to explain to me how that works, but generally speaking
> - the main problem here is formulating the right kind of question to answer
> in a scientific research. In fact, it crosses my mind that if anybody here
> has a contact within the Image Permanence Institute, I'd be happy to get in
> touch (IPI, according to its own vision, is "dedicated to supporting the
> preservation of cultural heritage collections in libraries, archives, and
> museums around the world").
>
> Possibly the study question should be about finding the most permanent
> printer-ink-substrate combo (for ethanol?) in each category (laser, inkjet,
> thermal transfer), and then comparing categories. This would involve
> thinking about *the best ways to test permanence for labels in fluids* -
> for example, in my own published paper I presented a form of accelerated
> aging as a testing method. What would be the best way for testing, other
> than waiting 50-100 years? Maybe discussing this with people at the Image
> Permanence Institute could help.
>
> Gali
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 5:18 PM Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gali,
> Your suggestion "to understand the "recipe" as much as possible" seems a
> very good idea.
> If you or someone else decides to initiate a task group within SPNHC to
> take that on, I suggest you reach out to archives and paper conservators
> through their discussion groups as they may already have useful information
> available. Perhaps the subject could be suggested as a good research
> project for a conservation student. That is, a compilation of information
> combined with some experimentation for validation.
> Rob
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Gali
> Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 09, 2026 4:17 PM
> *To:* Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>
> Redesigning is already happening: new tech pops in, for example the
> thermal transfer printers are new compared to inkjets, and new substrates
> are also being developed.
>
> One way to deal with inevitable change is to understand the "recipe" as
> much as possible and seek out the "cleaner" products - as in the case of
> "OBA free, acid free, lignin free" etc paper or understanding which types
> of toners are likely to be more permanent. Understanding the technology as
> much as possible and testing what we can may help narrow down choices and
> set clearer standards. The other way is to remain out of it and use
> handwritten labels, but it seems that all of us regard this option mostly
> as a ship that has sailed: too hard to get the workforce to do it.
>
> Gali
>
> Gali Beiner (ACR)
> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
> National Natural History Collections
> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> Fax. 972-2-6585785
> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en* <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>
>
> בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 21:49, מאת Ian Engelbrecht ‏<
> ianicus.za at gmail.com>:
>
> Plus the fact that things change over time. HP printer - toner - paper
> combination might work now, but will it still 30 years from now when
> they’ve redesigned one or three of those components?
>
> Ian
>
> On Thu, 09 Apr 2026 at 18:20, Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
> wrote:
>
> Doug is pointing out the heart of the problem - the variety of printing
> combinations which makes comparisons difficult.
>
> In fact, the variations in the way printer-ink-subsrate (paper or other)
> combinations work is the main reason why manufacturers recommend using
> their own brand for all three parts of the combo. In other words, the
> manufacturers say HP printers are supposed to yield better, more permanent
> results with original HP toners and HP specialized paper. The same goes for
> Canon, Epson or any other brand. Testing according to conservation
> parameters can work with that - or at least look very carefully into what,
> exactly is chosen for use (eg paper - OBA free, lignin free etc etc).
>
> The way things stand now - with endless possible variations and
> combinations - basically means it is up to us to try and set the criteria
> of choice and monitor whether that works. Not easy, but possibly we can
> try.
>
> Gali
>
>
>
> Gali Beiner (ACR)
> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
> National Natural History Collections
> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> Fax. 972-2-6585785
> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en* <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>
>
> בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 18:46, מאת Douglas Yanega ‏<dyanega at gmail.com
> >:
>
> On 4/8/26 11:38 PM, Gali Beiner wrote:
>
> Other than that, I think that maybe we could use this forum to up the
> level of testing a bit - after all we have a pool of collection
> professionals here, all with the same problem to solve re:labels for wet
> collections (mainly alcohol but also other). Why shouldn't we gather
> ourselves into a group of say 5 to 10 people in different collections and
> agree on some sort of protocol for different labels in each collection (or
> maybe sets of different labels to be tested in all collections, we could
> consider the details)  - and have this followed both in the short and long
> terms? That would be more interesting than any individual test. Dear
> readers in this forum, how does this sound to you?
>
> Compilation of different people's experiences have been done here and
> elsewhere with some regularity, and one thing that is a universal
> impediment to generating a coherent picture is the variability of the
> medium that is being printed on. Comparisons of different printers are
> nearly meaningless if the "tests" are on different paper stock.
>
> The most dramatic example I can offer is one from personal experience:
> back in 1990, we obtained a Laserjet, a fairly new technology at that time,
> and printed thousands of labels for both dry and ethanol specimens. The
> first several months everything worked flawlessly, and to this day, almost
> 40 years on, those original labels are perfectly fine, even the ones stored
> in ethanol. Then one day we ran out of the existing stock of paper, bought
> a new ream, and loaded it into the printer without changing anything else.
> The lettering on those labels chipped, flaked, and rubbed off the dry
> labels, and when we tried to put them into ethanol, the letters floated
> off. No alteration of settings was involved, and nothing we did made the
> labels viable. That is, until we checked the packaging on the original
> ream; we found it was not the exact same thing that we had switched to, so
> we bought something IDENTICAL, and the resulting labels were just fine
> again. The problem had literally nothing to do with the printer, and
> everything to do with the paper.
>
> Again, any "test" that does not control for the medium will not be a fair
> and objective test of the merits of a printer.
>
> We presently use an HP Laser printer, and yes, we have had to try
> different types of paper to find paper stocks that work well with this
> printer. Not all do. Even worse, when we use "replacement" toner cartridges
> (not the official HP brand), sometimes *but not always*, the printing is
> slightly flaky and easily abraded. That means there are at least THREE
> parameters that need to be controlled: the printer, the medium, and the
> toner. Variation in any one of those three can lead to variation in the
> quality of the results. This makes objective assessment and testing *very* difficult,
> and ultimately it's just a litany of anecdotes.
>
> Peace,
>
> --
> Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314    phone: 951-827-4315
> FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
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> --
> Gali Beiner (ACR)
> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
> National Natural History Collections
> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> Fax. 972-2-6585785
> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
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> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
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> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
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> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>


-- 
Gali Beiner (ACR)
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
National Natural History Collections
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Fax. 972-2-6585785
*gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>*

*https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>*
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