[SAC-FAST] [Fwd: RE: FAST subcommittee]
Sherman Clarke
sherman.clarke at nyu.edu
Wed Dec 12 11:45:44 EST 2007
Duh, you're right (the algorithm is right). The LC record has "Macedonia" but should have "Macedonia (Republic)." I've put it on my bfm pile.
Thanks.
Sherman
----- Original Message -----
From: "O'Neill,Ed" <oneill at oclc.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:44 am
Subject: RE: RE: [SAC-FAST] [Fwd: RE: FAST subcommittee]
To: Sherman Clarke <sherman.clarke at nyu.edu>
Cc: sac-fast at mailman.yale.edu, "Arnold,Anya" <arnolda at oclc.org>, "Bennett,Rick" <bennetr at oclc.org>, "Childress,Eric" <childree at oclc.org>, "Clopton,Kay" <cloptonk at oclc.org>, "Dean,Becky" <deanr at oclc.org>, "Kammerer,Kerre" <kammerer at oclc.org>, lelh at loc.gov, loischan at uky.edu, "O'Neill,Ed" <oneill at oclc.org>, "Vizine-Goetz,Diane" <vizine at oclc.org>
> Hi Sherman,
>
>
>
> For Macedonia, in LCSH Macedonia (from the scope note) is used for
> "works on the ancient country and kingdom of Macedonia" and Macedonia
> (Republic) is used for the former Yugoslav Republic. With very few
> exceptions, the mapping for geographic names for LCSH to FAST is
> one-to-one so that:
>
>
>
> Macedonia --> Macedonia
>
> Macedonia (Republic) --> Macedonia (Republic)
>
>
>
> i.e., the unqualified form is assumed to the ancient place. While I
> haven't looked carefully at the item, it is certainly possible that
> the LCSH heading is wrong. During the mapping, we verify that that
> the heading is valid (established) but not that it is appropriate for
> the title.
>
>
>
> As you point out, since most ancient places predate modern states and
> often have were different boundaries, we used the continent for most
> ancient jurisdictional names but not for natural features. Otherwise
> we found ourselves equating the Roman Empire with Italy.
>
>
>
> We can discuss more in Philly, Ed
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sherman Clarke [mailto:sherman.clarke at nyu.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 8:17 AM
> To: O'Neill,Ed
> Cc: sac-fast at mailman.yale.edu; Kammerer,Kerre
> Subject: Re: RE: [SAC-FAST] [Fwd: RE: FAST subcommittee]
>
>
>
> Ed,
>
> A couple followup questions/comments at this point.
>
>
>
> On the Macedonia example, how does the algorithm attempt to determine
> ancient or modern Macedonia? (You can explain this in person at
> Midwinter.) The title in this case is about an earlier 20th century
> revolutionary. The use of continent for ancient places is interesting:
> most ancient places predate modern states and our LCSH-informed bias
> is for current geographic name; does this only apply to countries? I
> checked Lascaux in the FAST authority file and found "France --
> Lascaux Cave." Checking gaul, I found "Europe -- Gaul." In the VR
> arena, folks like the idea of using the TGN hierarchy but I don't
> think anyone feels the need for the whole hierarchy for, say, Paris, France:
>
> World (facet) - Europe (continent) - France (nation) - Île-de-France
> (region) - Ville de Paris, Département de (department) - Paris
> (inhabited place).
>
>
>
> My first reaction on the value of FAST author/title headings is that
> they're probably not valuable. For something famous like Huck Finn
> (FAST = Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (Twain, Mark)), the FAST
> heading is ok but I'm not sure that "Ben and me (Dodds, Terry)" is
> very helpful.
>
>
>
> On to Philadelphia.
>
>
>
> Sherman
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "O'Neill,Ed" <oneill at oclc.org>
>
> Date: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:16 pm
>
> Subject: RE: [SAC-FAST] [Fwd: RE: FAST subcommittee]
>
> To: Sherman Clarke <sherman.clarke at nyu.edu>
>
> Cc: sac-fast at mailman.yale.edu, "Kammerer,Kerre" <kammerer at oclc.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Sherman,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thanks for the comments. The algorithmic mapping is still an earlier
>
> > beta version and this helps us identify the problems. I have added
> my
>
> > thoughts below.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Happy holidays; See you in Philly,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ed
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: sac-fast-bounces at mailman.yale.edu
>
> > [mailto:sac-fast-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Sherman Clarke
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:41 AM
>
> > To: sac-fast at mailman.yale.edu
>
> > Subject: Re: [SAC-FAST] [Fwd: RE: FAST subcommittee]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Qiang and all--
>
> >
>
> > I printed out about 20 pages of sample records and looked at them.
> Below
>
> > some comments with the ocm number of relevant record indicated:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ocm36513477: "Early works to 1800" in LCSH became "Early works" in
> FAST;
>
> > interesting, not a problem, probably to consolidate variations on "Early
>
> > works to ..."?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Exactly
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ocm00073477: title of book includes 1970s, LCSH has Economic
>
> > history--1945-1971 and Economic history--1971-1990; alas, that results
>
> > in FAST 648 of 1945-1990; I think this wouldn't happen in real
>
> > application of FAST where you give dates of coverage but it is rather
>
> > unfortunate in algorithmic translation of LCSH
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > For algorithmic mapping, FAST simply uses the LCSH periods.
> If
>
> > the period heading was manually assigned, 1970 - 1979 would be
>
> > preferable.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ocm22243477: LCSH has --Macedonia which becomes Europe--Macedonia in
>
> > FAST; why is Macedonia divided indirectly but most places aren't, e.g.,
>
> > Nepal, Germany, Argentina (among the records I have, as well as U.S.
>
> > places which I understand) - is this because of difference of Macedonia
>
> > in Greece and Macedonia in former Yugoslavia (FAST thesaurus also has
>
> > Macedonia, Iowa)? FAST also has places within Macedonia (Republic)
>
> > divided from Europe without intervening Macedonia (which goes back
> to
>
> > decision to do two levels for geographics?)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ancient and extinct places are entered indirectly under the continent.
>
> > It this case, the algorithm assumes that the LCSH heading represented
>
> > the ancient country and kingdom of Macedonia rather than the current
>
> > jurisdiction.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ocm35903477: LCSH has author/title (Lawson, Robert, 1892-1957. Ben
> and
>
> > me) which doesn't get translated into FAST; no author/title conversion?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We do author/title conversions but there is no LC authority record
> (and
>
> > therefore no FAST heading) for "Ben and me". Currently we only
> create
>
> > a
>
> > FAST UT authority if (1) the author/title is established in the LC/NACO
>
> > file and (2) it has been used at least once as a subject in WorldCat.
>
> > We are considering establishing additional FAST titles for established
>
> > authors based on WorldCat usage but have not yet done so. Any thoughts
>
> > on the value of adding titles based on usage?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ocm41313477: all of the LCSH have $x Estimates (this subdivision is
> $x
>
> > in the free-floating publication) but it really looks strange in the
>
> > FAST breakout - ambiguity of form/topic for this subdivision is
>
> > exaggerated somehow when you're thinking facets - also, it makes me
>
> > realize I still think it's a bit strange that topical subdivisions
> stay
>
> > with their base topic; it often makes sense but when it's repeated
> on
>
> > multiple basic topics, it looks redundant
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The form/topic ambiguity is a problem. However, since Estimates is
> not
>
> > valid as a form in FAST (or LCSH), it is treated as a topic and retained
>
> > with the main heading.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ocm06803477: one of LCSH has $y Cretaceous but it didn't become
> FAST 648
>
> > - there is a FAST authority record for Cretaceous Geologic Period
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > This is a FAST conversion error which will be fixed in the next version
>
> > of the conversion software.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Happy holidays and see you in Philadelphia.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Sherman
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > SAC-FAST mailing list
>
> >
>
> > SAC-FAST at mailman.yale.edu
>
> >
>
> > http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/sac-fast
>
> >
>
>
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