[yul-naco] AAP for French name

Wed Jun 4 09:40:10 EDT 2025

Hi Dominique,

Thank you for the thorough information on NACO name practices for people from Belgium. I originally thought Belgium was solely French-speaking, so this was really helpful!

Best,
Wheat
________________________________
From: YUL-NACO <yul-naco-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Bourassa, Dominique <dominique.bourassa at yale.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2025 9:29 AM
To: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers <yul-naco at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [yul-naco] AAP for French name

Hi Wheat,

When I read the word French, I can’t help but jump right in. If this Marcel De Baer is the Belgian judge described in Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_de_Baer>, it’s a little more complex than simply following the instructions for French names.

Belgian names can be complicated because Belgium has three official languages (Dutch, French, and German). And that doesn’t take into account other languages/dialects that were and/or are still spoken like Walloon and Flemish. The first questions we must ask is what origin in “De Baer.” To me, it looks like a name of Dutch origin. But that’s just a hunch. Marcel De Baer described in the Wikipedia article was born in Antwerp, which is in the Dutch region of Belgian. That could be a clue. But he spoke “around 11 languages”! Therefore, I’ll let Hannelore who is from Belgium (not far from Antwerp in fact) confirm that De Baer is of Dutch origin.

If the name is of Dutch origin, we should follow the instructions for Dutch and Flemish names (F.11.3) which essentially tell us that the construction of the name depends on its origin.

  *   If the surname is of Dutch origin and the prefix is ver, record the prefix as the first element. Otherwise, record the part following the prefix as the first element.
     *   If we follow this instruction and the example given Beeck, Jan op de, the preferred name is Baer, Marcel de.
  *   For the name of a Netherlander whose surname is not of Dutch origin, record the part following the prefix as the first element.
     *   This instruction does not apply if the person is from Belgium.
  *   For the name of a Belgian whose surname is not of Dutch origin, apply the instructions for the language of the name.
     *   This last instruction would bring us back to the instructions for French you have below, which tells us to record as the first element, the part following the preposition, which Mara explained perfectly and what the example Musset, Alfred de proves. Thanks Mara!

On this subject, the document IFLA Names of Persons - Belgium<https://www.ifla.org/files/assets/cataloguing/pubs/ifla_names_of_persons_belgium_1995.doc> states:

“Note:  Belgian library practice regarding names with prefixes has been variable until now.  In the French-speaking part of the country, the tendency is to treat names of French origin according to French usage and with names of Dutch origin to take the prefix as the entry word.

In the Dutch-speaking part, the tendency is to treat all names with prefixes according to the traditional usage in The Netherlands, i.e., to place all prefixes, except ver, at the end of the names and to take the name following the prefix as the entry word.

However, the Netherlands cataloguing code, Regels voor de titelbeschrijving, recommends that for international exchange Belgian names should be treated according to the presentation in the national bibliography, as shown in the examples.” The examples show: DE LICHTERVELDE, Charles, Graaf which conflicts with RDA!!!

Since we have clear RDA instructions, we should follow them. Therefore, it seems that Baer, Marcel de should be the base of the access point, no matter what the presentation on the source is.

Best,

Dominique

From: YUL-NACO <yul-naco-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Caelin, Mara
Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2025 8:55 AM
To: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers <yul-naco at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [yul-naco] AAP for French name

Hi Wheat,

In French, "Du" and "Des" and are contractions of the article plus the preposition (de + le/ de + les), meaning "of the". "De" by itself is only a preposition ("of"), which would put it in the second category mentioned in the example.

Following the example, it looks like the AAP should be "Baer, Marcel de".

Hope that is helpful!

Best,

Mara

Mara Caelin (she/her/hers)

Catalog/Metadata Librarian

Bibliographic Description Unit

Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library

Yale University

________________________________

From: YUL-NACO <yul-naco-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:yul-naco-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Meier, Tachtorn <tachtorn.meier at yale.edu<mailto:tachtorn.meier at yale.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2025 8:09 AM
To: Distribution list for YUL NACO catalogers <yul-naco at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:yul-naco at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: [yul-naco] AAP for French name

Hi!

I am helping my colleague in constructing an AAP for an individual named "Marcel De Baer." We consulted RDA instruction F.11.5 (see below), but we found the example a bit confusing. Since neither of us is fluent in French, we are hoping someone can explain the differences presented in the instruction and clarify which form should be applied to this name.

For verification, the prefix "De" appears with a capital "D" on the sources we have.

Thank you!

Wheat

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