[Nhcoll-l] Phenoxyethanol and DNA

Fri Nov 12 08:52:09 EST 2021

Hi Paul,

I think this strongly depends on the recipe: we found 5 different, three 
of which include addition of saturated (40%) formaldehyde solution. If 
it would be one of those three, the initial formaldehyde addition should 
be detectable (e.g. through test strips for formaldehyde).

Another point keeping in mind surely is the osmolarity of the solution, 
if you move fragile marine invertebrates from phenoxetol into something 
else (Simon cautioned and mentioned this earlier); but as Tonya was 
specifically asking for birds in phenoxetol, I thought this would be 
less relevant.

What has been observed repeatedly in the past (in larger vertebrates) is 
complete maceration of specimens (which can happen at a sudden, even if 
specimens were closely monitored). View from that end, I am not sure how 
well the DNA would be preserved anyway, especially because all recipes 
we found have up to 80 parts of water (or more). I would assume that 
this would case strong hydrolysis of the DNA helix right from the start, 
at least this would be intuitive, but I am really guessing here, and 
others might have more details or knowledge on this.

But you definitely raise an important point that is definitely worth 
considering, before you attempt to re-fix specimens with formaldehyde 
(which were previously in a formaldehyde-free preservative)!

With best wishes
Dirk

Am 12.11.2021 um 14:14 schrieb Callomon,Paul:
>
> Dirk: do you know (or does anyone else) the effect of Phenoxyethanol 
> on DNA? If it does not degrade it, then we should be aware that 
> refixing in formalin will and that snips should thus be taken ahead of 
> that stage if future gene work is contemplated.
>
> Paul Callomon
>
> Collection Manager, Malacology and General Invertebrates//
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University***
>
> 1900 Benjamin Franklin Parkway, Philadelphia PA 19103-1195, USA
> /prc44 at drexel.edu <mailto:prc44 at drexel.edu> Tel 215-405-5096 - Fax 
> 215-299-1170/
>
> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> *On Behalf Of 
> *Dirk Neumann
> *Sent:* Friday, November 12, 2021 2:53 AM
> *To:* nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Phenoxyethanol
>
> *External.*
>
> Dear Tonya,
>
> several recipes exist and have been used in collections since the mid 
> 1950ies, mainly for marine invertebrates, but no only. Simon Moore 
> published 
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.natsca.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fpublications%2Fbooks%2FFluid%2520Preservation.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C939afca06c0f4ba50f7808d9a5b1b4fa%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C637723004955162859%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qOGYqNfaSmkouCEmUgptIcSpMtYrAfsHwXyVltDMx%2F0%3D&reserved=0> 
> on it back in 1999 and colleagues from the NHM in London may chip-in.
>
> John Simmons also has a own section on phenoxetol in his Fluid 
> Preservation book 
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frowman.com%2FISBN%2F9781442229662%2FFluid-Preservation-A-Comprehensive-Reference&data=04%7C01%7Cprc44%40drexel.edu%7C939afca06c0f4ba50f7808d9a5b1b4fa%7C3664e6fa47bd45a696708c4f080f8ca6%7C0%7C1%7C637723004955172856%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=HeuQSswtm30y5pq9UpmfuknnVezf9Z0gmg68WTRCIWo%3D&reserved=0> 
> (pages 69-70)
>
> The recommendation we give in our forthcoming book is that specimens 
> from phenoxetol should first be re-fixed in a 4% formaldehyde solution 
> for few days (depending on specimen size, body mass etc.) and then 
> stepped up from 30-50-70% EtOH. This seems to have worked fine, but 
> this experience so far refers exclusively to elasmobranchs, which tend 
> to behave slightly different to fixatives and preservatives compared 
> to, for example, bony fish (likely because of the cartilage). Close 
> monitoring during stepping specimens up surely is advised.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Dirk
>
> Am 12.11.2021 um 01:43 schrieb Haff, Tonya (NCMI, Crace):
>
>     Hello all,
>
>     We just come upon some bird specimens in our collection that have
>     been preserved with Phenoxyethanol.  There are no notes on its
>     concentration. The fluid needs to be changed over. I think we
>     should change it to 70% ETOH, but I am not sure if we should
>     slowly step up the concentration, or if another solution would be
>     preferable?
>
>     Thanks!
>
>     Tonya
>
>
>
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> -- 
>
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: 089 / 8107-111
> Fax: 089 / 8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> Postanschrift:
>
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> Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
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> ---------
>
> Dirk Neumann
>
> Tel: +49-89-8107-111
> Fax: +49-89-8107-300
> neumann(a)snsb.de
>
> postal address:
>
> Bavarian Natural History Collections
> The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
> Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
> Muenchhausenstr. 21
> 81247 Munich (Germany)
>
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-- 

Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

Postanschrift:

Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Storage
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München

Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/

---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
neumann(a)snsb.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Storage
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

Visit our section at:
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/sektion/ichthyologie-home/
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