Field Guide Brochure

Tue Apr 10 12:25:29 EDT 2001

Eric's post below is a needed input. The thing others need to "understand"
is that there are quite a few (paranoid?) people like myself who, for
varying reasons, are very leery of "law enforcement" when it comes to leps.

I too have been in the field with several wildlife personnel. In fact I
conducted a workshop for several top managers with the Forest Service and
F&W last year from the southeast US area. Class room in the morning and
field trip in the afternoon. I have also been subpoenaed by F&W several
years ago and had specimens confiscated I had purchased from John Kimner.
That was not a pleasant experience. I know the difference between rangers,
managers and true law enforcement agents.

My experience was heaven compared to some I know of. The agent who I dealt
with was very considerate (he made appointments to come by, allowed me to
make an inventory list, gave me a few extra weeks when my mother broke her
hip in the middle of all that). I had done nothing wrong. My understanding
was that Kimner had the appropriate permits for the Mexican material he was
collecting for, among many other professional researchers and institutions,
the Smithsonian.

I know of others at that time - who were not the "criminals" AND had NO
specimens - only correspondence - who were confronted at work, without
warning, and told they had to leave the classroom or medical office
immediately or be arrested. THIS IS TRAUMATIC. I told "my" agent here of
one agent (in Florida) who had done this to a party I knew there . The
AGENT here said he knew this other agent and that the guy was a real
"Rambo type" and said he had no business doing this the way he did. The
agent here then proceed to tell me of a "bust" this guy made with some duck
hunters.

Wildlife laws need to be enforced. But sometimes some of you should ask
yourselves why are some very reputable lepidopterists so knee jerky about
"law enforcement" - are they just paranoid or are there things they know of
or have experience that has caused them to be so easily set off on this
subject. I for one need to be reassured by posts like Eric's. But you know
what I am still not convinced. It is very traumatic for a law abiding
person to have someone with a GUN on their hip come to your home - even by
appointment - to question you, present you with Federal subpoena papers
etc. No matter how much they tell you you are not in trouble and this is
just legal formality - it is scary.

Do you all not cringe at the thought of an IRS audit? Yes, tax laws need to
be enforced too. But have innocent people lost "everything" due to
overzealous or Rambo IRS agents?  ABSOLUTELY. That is why Congress stepped
in to put some checks back into that "law enforcement" Do you not
immediately look down at the speedometer when you see a police car - even
if you are an off duty police officer?  Have you ever heard of any "law
enforcement" persons who are crooked?  Did Richard Nixon break the law?
Judges?

And one last thought. Having a PhD does not mean one no longer needs  the
Journal of the Lepidopterists Society. I would think the opposite would be
true. I am glad I know both Leroy and Eric. We're cool. Eric has the
advantage of also knowing the authors. I agree with Eric that we ( I ) have
been "alarmist" on this. The question still remains - why?  Most dogs don't
bite but if you have ever been bitten by one you will always look at dogs a
less trusting than those persons who have not.

Thanks for the post Eric, it helps temper guilt by association. Being
addicted, I will buy the book anyway.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric or Pat Metzler" <spruance at infinet.com>
To: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Field Guide Brochure

> In reply to leptraps and gatrelle:  I know both of these fine men.  I've
> known John for years, and I recently met the co-author, a photographer.
Ken
> Philip said it best:  wait til you see the book.
>
> The reactions, I've seen, to the brochure - a very fine brochure, without
> seeing the book are alarmest at the best and slanderous at worst.  PhD
> trained and highly experienced entomologists need not be members of Lep
Soc
> to write a fine book.  Jumping on them for their statement naming one
> intended audience without seeing the book makes no sense to me.  These
> statements are best saved for a review, which will occur in the next
issue
> of The Ohio Lepidopterists, newsletter of The Ohio Lepidopterists.
>
> M.B. Prondzinski's observation about park rangers and naturalists is
highly
> appropriate.
>
> It is finally warm in Columbus Ohio and leps are on the wing.
>
> Cheers to all,
>
> Eric Metzler
>
> "Ron Gatrelle" <gatrelle at tils-ttr.org> wrote in message
> news:002b01c0c12d$03dd55a0$9b0f1218 at gscrk1.sc.home.com...
> > I find neither of these gentlemen in the Lepidopterists' Society
members
> > list. I find a "sign of the times" to have people writing regional
> > butterfly book who are not Lep. Soc. members! Well, now we know why
they
> > did not say the book was for lepidopterists - and why it is for law
> > enforcement. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see the Freudian
slip
> > here.
> >
> > Lepsters are not assumed either. I have been writing articles and books
> for
> > over 25 years in several fields. I have worked with several editors -
you
> > don't "assume" your main target audience - you target them. Especially
in
> > advertising and marketing brochures. And you surely don't waste your
money
> > seeking those beyond the  "normal" audience/interest. You don't try to
> sell
> > cook books to "law enforcement".  The sad fact is that in today's
America
> > "law enforcement" is a part of the leps scene - and it has nothing to
do
> > with any interest in Lepidoptera. They are not the bug police. They are
> > policing the buggers.
> >
> > RG
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Leptraps at aol.com>
> > To: <gatrelle at tils-ttr.org>; <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: Field Guide Brochure
> >
> >
> > > The authors of "Field Guide to Butterflies of Illinois are:
> > >
> > > John K. Bouseman
> > > Associate Professional Scientist at the Illinois Natural History
Survey
> > >
> > > Jams G. Sternburg
> > > Professor Emerritus of Entomology
> > > University of Illinois,
> > > Urbana-Champaigne and an affiliate of the Illinois Natural History
> > Survey.
> > >
> > > I do not have access to the lep, Soc. Membership List, however, I
will
> > take a look at who they are tonight.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
>
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