Fw: Apology

[Ron Gatrelle]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Gatrelle" <gatrelle at tils-ttr.org>
To: <patfoley at csus.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Apology
 
 
> Dear Patrick
> This is the kind of situation that calls for an apology. Patrick, I
> understand why you personally could take this as a tongue-in-cheek dig at
> you. It was not. I do apologize to Patrick and all readers for unintended
> defamation. I hope as time goes on and as  ya'll get to know me e-better
> you will be able to tell when I have gone off-line and into my
> still-need-delivering-from-1960's radical, protest, spit it all out,
> challenge the status quo mode. Patrick, if you ever get to Charleston
look
> me up (I'm in the book). Well eat. I'll pay.
> Ron
>
> PS I do know there is a little bit of con-artist in me. Perhaps that's
why
> I suspect it in others.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Foley" <patfoley at csus.edu>
> To: "Ron Gatrelle" <gatrelle at tils-ttr.org>
> Cc: "Leps-l" <Leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Extinction vs accuracy
>
>
> > Ron,
> >
> > I picked my books based on the fact that they are standard texts and
> classics
> > in ecology, biogeography and evolution, the fields that would seem most
> > relevant. I was surprised that the term extirpated did not arise. I
> believe the
> > books included:
> > Krebs Ecology
> > Brown Biogeography
> > MacArthur and Wilson Island Biogeography
> > Hutchinson Introduction to Population Ecology
> > Darlington One of his biogeography books
> > Myers and Giller Analytical Biogeography
> > and a dozen others which I chose for their diversity of viewpoint.
> >
> > Can you do the same? I believe that despite your disclaimer you have
just
> > called me a con artist. I think if you look at my posts that although I
> have
> > strong opinions, I usually back them up with facts and research.
> >
> > Ron Gatrelle wrote:
> >
> > > OK, lets play the game. Boom, this is the first book I picked up.
> Opening
> > > now to Glossary of terms. Humm, look for the E's... Ah, there they
> are -
> > > extinct and extirpated - right next to each other. Humm, I see that
> extinct
> > > is listed first (this must mean it is a more important term*). Here
are
> the
> > > definitions.
> > >
> > > "Extinct: a species that no longer survives anywhere."
> > >
> > > "Extirpated: a species which has become extinct in a geographic
region
> > > (such as a state) but still survives in other places."
> > >
> > > Well! There we have it! I'm convinced. Therefore I (meaning others)
> need to
> > > look no further.           Pause.
> > >
> > > Now, is it possible that even though this was the first book _I_
picked
> up
> > > that my prior knowledge of the type of book it is let me know that it
> most
> > > likely had the term extirpate in it. There are a dozen others I could
> do
> > > the same thing with. As a preacher I am all to aware that a seminary
is
> a
> > > place one goes to to learn how to debunk and explain away the other
> sides
> > > theology. I once hoped that science would not be so clickish.
> > > Unfortunately, higher education (in any field) all too often only
makes
> > > some people better con-artists**. This malady is not just limited to
TV
> > > preachers.
> > >
> > > By the way I hate extinction (as I hate rape and genocide). I surely
> don't
> > > hate the word!
> > >
> > > Footnotes. *I know why extiNct is listed before extiRpate. **This is
> not
> > > directed at Patrick in any way. I like to take individual situations
> and
> > > address them from broader horizions. I editorialize.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Patrick Foley" <patfoley at csus.edu>
> > > To: <Fred.Heath at power-one.com>
> > > Cc: "Leps-l" <Leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:28 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Extinction vs accuracy
> > >
> > > > Fred,
> > > >
> > > > The term 'extirpate' is sometimes suggested for local extinction,
but
> not
> > > by
> > > > most ecologists. It has etymological problems as a synonym for
local
> > > extinction,
> > > > as I wrote in a post yesterday. If anyone really hates the use of
> > > 'extinction'
> > > > as local extinction, you need to convince more people than me and
> others
> > > on the
> > > > list. You need to convince the editors of numerous journals and
> > > University
> > > > presses.
> > > >
> > > > I have just pulled 18 books off the wall, classics in ecology,
> > > biogeography and
> > > > evolution. Looking in the indices I find
> > > > extinction    18 times
> > > > extirpation    0 times.
> > > >
> > > > I'm convinced. How about you?
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Foley
> > > > patfoley at csus.edu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Heath, Fred" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Parick,
> > > > >         Just for my continuing education, what does the word
> extirpated
> > > mean
> > > > > in a biological sense? In my ignorance, I've always used extinct
> when a
> > > > > species was totally gone worldwide and extirpated when talking
> about a
> > > local
> > > > > population. Obviously, if a local or island population is a
> distinct
> > > > > subspecies (however that is defined) then the subspecies could be
> > > extinct,
> > > > > even though the species is still viable elsewhere.
> > > > > ---Thanks, Fred
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Patrick Foley [SMTP:patfoley at csus.edu]
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 2:14 PM
> > > > > > To:   Ron Gatrelle
> > > > > > Cc:   Leps-l
> > > > > > Subject:      Re: Extinction vs accuracy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chris, Ron and others,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason I believe there is a scientific consensus that the
> term
> > > > > > extinction
> > > > > > should apply to local populations also is that the scientific
> > > literature
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > full of that usage. This is especially true of the island
> > > biogeography and
> > > > > > metapopulation literature, but also the population genetics
> > > literature.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
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> >
>
 
 
 
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