Serious first, fun second.

[Clay Taylor]

Ron -

This "Birder's" response;

In the first place "Audubon" has been dead for over a century, and he made
all his IDs over the barrel of a shotgun.

The American Birding Association sets ethical codes for behavior while in
the field, but there are NO standards for field identification except those
set by local and state birding organizations, and in the case of first North
American sightings, the American Ornithological Union. There are plenty of
bogus bird sightings that get reported - some are honest mistakes, and
others are the result of poor judgment.  Many of the subsequent debates are
anything but gentle.

 If you think that the birding community universally uses the same ID
standards, your ignorance of the birding world matches our ignorance of the
entomological world.   I also reiterate my earlier comment that there are
more than a few incorrectly identified pinned insect specimens as well as
bird specimens in museums.

Keep writing about skippers and your fieldwork - I learn a lot and don't
have to get annoyed.

Clay Taylor
Moodus, CT
ctaylor at att.net




----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Gatrelle" <gatrelle at tils-ttr.org>
To: "Leps-l" <Leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:17 PM
Subject: Serious first, fun second.


>
> Chuck Vaughn wrote:
>
>
> > Bob,
> >
> > Are you sure the Lorquin's Admirals were not California Sisters?
> > I've been to Yosemite lots of times and have never seen Lorquin's
> > Admirals there but California Sisters are everywhere.
>
> This is a general editorial and not directed at Bob in any way. The masses
> of birders that have come over into lepping have brought their entire
> vocabulary and way of doing business into this arena - except for one very
> notable item.  My understanding, as a non-birder, is that there are some
> stiff requirements among birders to insure proper identifications. Top on
> this list is confirmation of ID by an accompanying person AND expert
> verification.  I often see bogus listings in their unilateral "sightings"
> of leps. How many of these have now, or will, become dots on maps? No one
> else present, no vouchers, and usually no pictures. BOY, what an honest
and
> accurate group. ?
>
> Can I make an observation?  This indicates something more serious to me
> though. It is that the majority of these folks remain primarily birders,
> and thus serious about birds and not butterflies. This is evidenced by,
and
> why they are much more lax about, butterfly IDing than for birds. In other
> words their interest in butterflies is largely a passing fad - something
> they do on the side while being serious birders. This is evidenced by the
> _fact_ that a very large number (have now completed their butterfly life
> list) are now all "flocking" over to prey on the dragonflies. If they were
> all so honest or accurate, Audubon would not have made any rules relative
> to identification. So if Audubon doesn't blindly, naively, categorically,
> trust their own members - and - are so serious about scientific bird
> accuracy that they are not afraid to "offend" someone by questioning and
> requiring confirmation of identifications - how much more should
> requirements and safeguards be placed on these same folks who have now
> moved over to our leps land?
>
> Gosh, this is like a kid going to a neighbor's house where the rules are
> not so tough. We can go over to leps land and all be instant experts. That
> is a lot more "fun" than the rigidity of birding. Birding is serious,
> butterflies are just fun. How many times has someone posted those exact
> words to me here or in private.  Ron, lighten up, butterflying is just
> fun... we are just having fun... Well, their "fun" is someone else's
> science. There is plenty of fun in lepping. But not by sacrificing the
> serious and scientific part of it. IDing and reporting living organisms -
> as demonstrated by the Audubon rules - is not something to play with.
>
> And people wonder why folks like myself or Chris are not big fans of NABA
> or see a dumbing down of lepidopterology. Further, the NABA names list is
> not The standardized list of common names. Far from it.
>
> Ron
>
> PS  I forgot to mention that I saw an Ivory Billed Woodpecker in the swamp
> near my house last week. Yes, I was alone,  but what does that have to do
> with anything.
>
>
>
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