Ron Gatrelle gatrelle at
Wed Jan 9 15:31:34 EST 2002

My commenty inserted. Ron Gatrelle

----- Original Message -----
From: Valerie Passoa
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:07 PM

Dear Larry Gall,
    The message I posted today, January 9th at 11:18am was a draft.  A
power surge occurred and the message was sent before I had edited it.  The
following is the final form.
Dear Larry,
    You posted an excellent message several months ago stating the
guidelines for subscribers to the Leps-L List.  Included were points such
as discussing Lepidoptera-related topics only, being polite, stopping
personal attacks, being succinct, and refraining from off-topic subjects.
This list has evolved into a handful of people using it as a public forum
while hundreds of others remain a captive audience.  Many subscribers have
addressed this subject and suggested using the delete button with abandon.
I do not think we should have to do this anymore.

Ron here: The number one strength of Leps-l, compared to every other
Lepidoptera related list serves I am aware of, is its freedom of speech.
Many groups are very rigid and only allow the "amen corner" of their narrow
view.   In other words they are somewhat to very
intellectually/philosophically segregated - private clubs where the local
elite can reassure themselves.  Leps-l is far from the only leps list on
the web.  If it changes in its openness - it no longer needs to be as it
just becomes a clone of some other restricted site.

Sorry, but Valerie's statement of  others here being "a captive audience"
is like people who have never registered to vote and don't even go to the
polls complaining that their political voice is never heard.  The only
thing stopping all 3 to 4 hundred people on this list from posting at least
one email a day is _themselves_.  And how easy it is.  No envelope, no
stamp, just hit enter.

The following was fine with me till I noticed that Neil was left out.  I
totally support Neil's right to speak (post) as much and often as he wants.
I also like his passion (convictions) for his position.  I don't like his
style at times or agree with his position - but those are MY PROBLEMS - not
his or any one else's.  Having said that, it is inescapable that the most
posts in the last "controversy" and "heated" in style were by Neil -- but
his name is totally left of the list of e-hogs and e-bullies?  Pardon me,
but I do not see this as a simple omission or oversight -  but as blatant
prejudice against some factions and support for one faction.  Hey, just my
view and opinion - freely expressed.


Valerie again:     I am one of many who do not enjoy Anne Kilmer's posts.
She uses this List as if it were a newspaper column.  She does attack
others in a cloaked way and her dark sarcasm is not appreciated.  I have
received many off-list messages from those who have made the same
observation.  Until now, I have never posted on this List unless I had
something informational or helpful to say about Lepidoptera.  I also
believe that Ron Gattrelle and Paul Cherubini think this is their list and
use it accordingly.  If you are not troubled by their diatribes, then
perhaps I should consider unsubscribing.
    I understand that this very post is off-topic, but I took the liberty
once, in order to bring forth publicly, what many think privately.  Also,
thank you to those on this List who are routinely helpful and add interest
for others on so many topics related to Lepidoptera.
Valerie Passoa


Ron: No,  this post is not off topic.  It is about leps-l and its policy &
function. One of the thoughts I have had relative to the Lord of the Rings
posts - which I chipped in on myself (once) is that it is definitely off of
Leps topic (except for a moth - which may be how it all came up in the
first place).   I thought to myself.  Humm,  Lord of the Rings but we
better not bring up the Lord Jesus or the ax will fall -- But I'm a live
and let live person.  If people here occasionally bring up off topic things
like a movie that is Ok with me.  To me this is not the place to talk about
"Jesus" but it is sure fine to talk about God as creator as to many many
here God is the maker of Lepidoptera not "evolution"  Creationism is well
even if a segment of the list may think God is not and creation is bogus.
Fine, many here _think_ Darwinian slime evolution is bogus too.  Life is
not a one way street - so who died and left  ____ facton in charge?

And to me this is the bottom line here.  None of _us_ are in charge of this
group which means we will continually have to put up with things, people,
and positions we think suck (to use Jim Taylor's word ;-)  If someone wants
just a watcher only, or collector only, or bird and butterfly club, Neil
only, Ron only site find one -- there are plenty of them on the web.  This
is an ocean site that all leps rivers (including dealers) empty (dump)


PS   Anne? Not like Anne? And she was first on the list and Neil has a
halo? Is there such a thing as a rent-a-post?  That was not impolite - it
is the mirror of sarcastic humor....  If ya cant run with the big dogs stay
under the porch.


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