Monarch Migration Predicted to be Extinct within 16 years

Patrick Foley patfoley at
Tue Oct 7 18:48:43 EDT 2003


Human interest in nature extends beyond the material substances 
involved. I believe that you recognize this as much as anyone.

If we kept all the DNA of every organism and removed their behaviors, 
cultures and strategies, the world would be a more empty place, whether 
or not humans were around to observe the phenomena that were gone.

patfoley at

Ron Gatrelle wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Patrick Foley" <patfoley at>
> Subject: Re: Monarch Migration Predicted to be Extinct within 16 years
>>Did Brower blunder? Or did he warn? Is the habitat in Mexico secure now?
>>Brower gets ten more years on his "blunder", based on the quote you
>>link. And note, Brower is not claiming that Monarchs will be extinct in
>>ten years, he is claiming that the Eastern migratory phenomenon is
>>likely to be extinguished. I think Brower may be wrong, partly because
>>he was right to push for the protection of the overwintering sites. But
>>I also think that the migratory phenomenon is more fragile than you do.
>>At some point of overwintering mortality in Mexico, the Eastern monarch
>>population is going to be under strong selection to avoid it.
> _IF_ pretty much everyone agrees that this is not a matter of potential
> species extinction but preservation of a phenomenon (strategy actually),
> then why is the _phenomenon_ so important? Humans are the only creature on
> earth that is aware of this phenomenon is and what it is about.
> Knowing this is really about a phenomenon (like Old Faithful) tells us why
> we now have a growing multimillion dollar tourist industry growing about
> it.   Fly the thousands of Monarch Tourists (or shallow phenomenon
> tourists?) on fossil fuel guzzling planes to Mexico full, build facilities,
> throw in a few night spots, bars, build, pollute, destroy X patch of trees
> (no Monarchs in it so its OK) and build the motel with a great view, and on
> and on.
> Sorry, if this is just about preserving a phenomenon for _our_
> enviro-industry enjoyment I want nothing to do with it.   I'd rather hear
> Brower talk about potential extinction - that would merit millions for
> intervention.
> Ron Gatrelle
> PS  Evolved phenomenon (like flight or lack thereof) are transitory.  We
> humans tend to want to keep only those that appeal to our romantic
> prejudices.   An insect sucking nectar from a flower is great - plant
> flowers.  An insect sucking blood from us is horrible - kill all the
> mosquitoes.   HUmmmmm, well, this has to be.... I bet there is, or will
> soon be, a mosquito abatement program at the Monarch overwintering site as
> tourist don't put up with nasty biting or stinging BUGS!!   If this was
> such an important and delicate area, than it should have all the local
> people moved out, no tourists allowed, and the entire region returned to a
> pristine wilderness sanctuary only accessable by scientists.  I mean you
> can't walk on Old Faithful the last I checked.
> PPS   Don't anyone get on my case, as sarcasm and overstatement is good for
> self reflection - esp. to egotists.
> PPISSISS I did. What happened to Tampa Bay???  Go Colts!!!!


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