Moth Collecting May Soon Be Frowned Upon

Mexicodoug mexicodoug at
Fri Sep 11 18:14:30 EDT 2009

"It's time to put your own cards on the table and show us what you're 
all about. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been curious about this."

Hello Royce, Paul,

Why would anyone be curious as to what Paul is all about - He seems not 
to believe in the sanctity of preserving insect life, just exposing his 
personal brand of hypocrisy. I would much rather he use his hobby to 
debunk by developing some peer reviewed population dynamics associated 
with the relative impact rankings he mentions. In the absence of that, 
the entire charged subject is pretty much devoid of substance.

I would like to know only this: What clearly more effective method is 
there to educate the populace on respect for habitat and its 
conservation? If non-scientists perceive entomologists could care less 
about insect life at the most deliberate moments, how does this shake 
out regarding the politics of habitat conservation in general? 
Differences aside - we are all on the same team, right?

Trading in a few SUVs sounds like a good idea anyway!

Best wishes

-----Original Message-----
From: Royce J Bitzer <mariposa at>
To: cking at YorkU.CA; monarch at
Cc: LEPS-L at; owner-leps-l at; 
TILS-leps-talk at
Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: Moth Collecting May Soon Be Frowned Upon


I've had the privilege of reading your missives for years now, and your 
theme is
 so often the same.  You frequently criticize biologists and 
ecologists for purportedly driving outsized cars, living in oversized 
houses, and trampling the world with their huge carbon footprints, and 
therefore being pretentious and hypocritical.

But one thing I've _never_ heard from you in all this time is whether 
you yourself actually practice what you preach.  What kind of car(s) do 
_you_ drive?  How big is _your_ house?  What do you have in your stock 
portfolio?  What is the environmental impact of your own lifestyle?

It's time to put your own cards on the table and show us what you're 
all about.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been curious about this.


Royce Bitzer

At 02:01 PM 9/11/2009, Carolyn King wrote:

There you go again, making personal attacks based on no information 

I would expect that anyone with any conscience or understanding of 
ecosystems would choose to kill any organisms without a good reason.  
We may differ on our assessment of the value of a particular study, but 
I hope that no one on this list disagree that "live traps are 

For your information, Paul, none of our officers drives a big SUV ( or, 
I believe, a van) and car-pooling is encouraged.

Have a nice day,

p.s.  For those of you not familiar with Paul, this sort of nastiness 
and lack of accuracy is 
not unusual.

Paul Cherubini <monarch at>
Sent by: owner-leps-l at

09/11/09 02:34 PM

Please respond to
monarch at


TILS-leps-talk at
TILS-leps-talk at

Re: Moth Collecting May Soon Be Frowned Upon
Re: Moth Collecting May Soon Be Frowned Upon

The Toronto Entomologist's Association's "Collecting
Code" says:

Ethics of collecting:

9. Light traps: live traps are preferable and should be
visited regularly and the catch should not be killed
wholesale for subsequent examination.

So the Association is essentially saying it is unethical
to catch a bunch of moths at a light trap and kill
them for subsequent examination.

But the Association has no problem with members
or officers who drive big SUV's or Vans to butterfly
or moth watching sites and kill twice as many leps
and other insects as those who drive compact cars. 

Paul Cherubini
El Dorado, Calif.


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