[Leps-l] Potential loss of monarch overwintering habitat in Mexico

[Paul Cherubini]

> On 2/16/2013 8:16 PM, Foley, Patrick wrote:

>> Count me (and the great majority of atmospheric scientists)
>> among the climate change alarmists.
>> 
>> Skepticism in science is a very useful tool. But one should
>> be skeptical of ones own views also.  As far as I can see,
>> most climate change deniers do not question their own
>> belief systems or what motivates them.

Stan Gorodenski wrote:

> Good point. This never occurred to me. I wonder if climate
> change deniers even know themselves what motivates them. 

How is any of the above "denier" and "motivation" discussion
relevant to the subject of this thread; i.e. relevant to the 
question of whether or not any credible science exists 
to support the contention that temperatures in the overwintering
region of Mexico could conceivably increase by a staggering 
and unprecedented 3-4 degrees during the next 18 years 
and (Chip Taylor's words} "eliminate most of the suitable 
areas for overwintering because it would eliminate the 
oyamel fir trees."?

Especially given the fact that we know that during the
past 35 years of global warming the altitudes that
monarchs overwinter at in Mexico did not change
and no deaths of oyamel fir trees were observed?

And the fact that we also know that the latitudes
at which monarchs overwintering along the California
coast did not shift northward during the past
75 years of warming?  

Paul Cherubini
El Dorado, Calif.