[Leps-l] Deniers
Roger Kuhlman
rkuhlman at hotmail.com
Sun Feb 17 15:52:44 EST 2013
The use of the word 'deniers' for most developers, corporate interests, and heavy users of natural resources is not in any way childish. They are constantly denying all the damage they are doing to biodiversity, native ecosystems, and natural habitats and they refuse take any responsibility for the harm they do. Someone has to call a spade a spade even if some people do not like hearing the truth. Roger Kuhlman
>
> On 2/17/2013 9:29 AM, Strathy wrote:
> > The continued use of the word 'deniers' on this list is so childish.
>
> I changed the subject title to Deniers because duplicate messages were
> being sent to the list (which has now been corrected. Thanks, Larry). I
> felt my follow up message that took place about an hour or so later, the
> one I renamed to Deniers, could have been confused as just another
> duplicate of the one I had previously sent if I kept the same original
> subject title (which was RE:[Leps-l] Potential loss of overwintering
> monarch habitat in Mexico). I wanted to make sure everyone knew this was
> a new message from me and so I changed the subject to Deniers (a quick
> and easy change to make), not imagining in the least this would be an
> objectionable term to some. No apologies, though.
> Stan
>
> > I've been reading and learning from the very highly esteemed people in
> > this group (and in other groups) for years. You guys are WAY above
> > resorting to referring to people who question your hypotheses with a
> > term that is repugnant most people on this list. I love reading the
> > various points of view, and I can see persuasive arguments on both
> > sides, but the word denier just ruins any credibility you might have
> > in my mind. All we need is the other side to start referring to their
> > opponents as 'bed wetters' and then we can all pull each others hair
> > at recess. Next thing you know we will have the collectors / watchers
> > nonsense rear it's ugly head again. Rise above it peoples.
> >
> > That's my honest opinion from a very VERY amateur entomologist.
> >
> > Todd in Manitoba (formerly in Toronto)
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 10:12 AM, spruance spruance
> > <spruance at beyondbb.com <mailto:spruance at beyondbb.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, First some local weather data:
> >
> > At lower elevation (4,500') on the east side of the continental
> > divide in Alamogordo NM, our temps fluctuate daily, as is normal
> > for the desert, and I see butterflies every day in my butterfly
> > garden. And the normal "winter"geometrids gather nightly at my
> > porch light in the crepuscular hours before the temps drop into
> > the 20s. We have snow on the mountain behind my house, but the
> > snow pack is well below "normal" (whatever that is now-a-days),
> > and the moisture content of the snow is very low. The
> > contribution of the snow to Spring run-offs will be negligable,
> > compared to "normal." The leps survive as they have for millenia,
> > but the species composition and relative abundance are undoubtedly
> > changing. We desperately need longitudinal quantitative data on
> > Lepidoptera (temp & precipitation changes are well documented
> > with real data for New Mexico) else the climate change deniers
> > will continue to cherry pick our weakness to support other
> > scientific data that human caused change is real.
> >
> > Out comes the soap-box:
> >
> > Sadly nearly all Lepidopterists, collectors, observers, and
> > photographers, cherry pick when they are in the field by pursuing
> > the rare species, or the species needed to fill holes in a
> > collection, or to get the best photo of the best specimen, or to
> > report species sure to get the attention of other Lepidopterists.
> > Species lists that appear in these discussion groups do not report
> > absolute numbers, nor do they document detailed habitat
> > associations of the reported species.
> >
> > I am not negative about this, I'm encouraged that there are so
> > many interested people willing to share. I encourage us to do
> > better. I hope someday our observations will be comparable to the
> > long term data being collected by the Long-Term Monitoring of
> > Butterflies project of The Ohio Lepidopterists.
> > http://www.ohiolepidopterists.org/bflymonitoring/downloads/BMP%20Manual%202008%20-%20large%20pages.pdf
> >
> > Please keep the observations coming. Please add some scientific
> > quality to the observations. Please, as I do, take photographs of
> > each observation site, at different times of the year, over many
> > years. With the digital age the photos are easy to incorporate
> > into word processing documents for easy annotation and long term
> > storage.
> >
> > The weather underground site http://www.wunderground.com/ is an
> > excellent place to obtain actual data for the exact time and place
> > you took the photo and made the observations.
> >
> > Time to put the soapbox away.
> >
> > Best wishes to all from sunny, unseasonably warm, and
> > drought-stricken southern New Mexico.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > Eric Metzler
> > Alamogordo NM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Stan Gorodenski
> > <stanlep at commspeed.net <mailto:stanlep at commspeed.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Patrick,
> > Regarding anthropomorphic climate change (ACC) deniers. I had some
> > personal experience where someone approached me, in email,
> > about a paper
> > they wanted me to read. It was presented in such a way as to
> > give the
> > impression that it was just an interesting paper they wanted
> > me to read
> > and to get my reaction. However, I knew this person was a ACC
> > denier and
> > his ulterior motive was to give me a paper that to him showed
> > how right
> > he was and how wrong I was. I read it and discovered some
> > serious flaws
> > in the analysis and data. I presented this to him - and then heard
> > nothing more about it. He still is a ACC denier, though. It
> > appears that
> > when something detracts from the beliefs of some individuals,
> > it is
> > ignored. If it supports their beliefs, it is remembered. This
> > goes along
> > with your idea that deniers do not question their own belief
> > system and
> > what motivates them.
> > Stan
> >
> > On 2/16/2013 9:10 PM, Stan Gorodenski wrote:
> > >
> > > On 2/16/2013 8:16 PM, Foley, Patrick wrote:
> > >
> > >> Count me (and the great majority of atmospheric scientists)
> > among the climate change alarmists.
> > >>
> > >> This is however not my area of expertise. Paul should go
> > argue this out with NOAA scientists. Or any atmospheric
> > scientists.
> > >>
> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeling_Curve
> > >>
> > >> Skepticism in science is a very useful tool. But one should
> > be skeptical of ones own views also. Nietzsche said once " The
> > courage of one's convictions -- a common error; real courage
> > is questioning one's own convictions." Scientists (including
> > climate change "alarmists") do this all the time. That is the
> > essence of science. As far as I can see, most climate change
> > deniers do not question their own belief systems or what
> > motivates them.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Good point. This never occurred to me. I wonder if climate
> > change
> > > deniers even know themselves what motivates them. I can see
> > all kinds of
> > > influences, including the political and religious group one
> > belongs to.
> > > I also wonder if it is the culture of anti-science that is
> > fostering
> > > this. The deniers are intelligent. Because of the
> > anti-science culture
> > > they make their own interpretations of data in lieu of those
> > of scientists.
> > > Stan
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Leps-l mailing list
> > > Leps-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Leps-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> > > http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leps-l mailing list
> > Leps-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Leps-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> > http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leps-l mailing list
> > Leps-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Leps-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> > http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leps-l mailing list
> > Leps-l at mailman.yale.edu
> > http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leps-l mailing list
> Leps-l at mailman.yale.edu
> http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/leps-l
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/leps-l/attachments/20130217/ba4ff7df/attachment.html
More information about the Leps-l
mailing list