[Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch overwintering colonies this past winter.

[rcech at nyc.rr.com]

Gawd. "Subspecies" is a human taxonomic construct, does not necessarily map
to all the vagaries now being observed at genetic level in nature. If
migratory and non-migratory Monarch populations intermingle at times (and at
times interbreed), then there will be continued gene exchange. If not, then
over time genetic drift should lead to full speciation. In the meantime, why
do we need to stuff fluid processes into fixed boxes, versus determining
ongoing levels of gene exchange and development of geno/phenotypic
divergences?

 

Just a though,

Rick

 

From: Leps-l <leps-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> On Behalf Of Roger Kuhlman
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2022 11:46 AM
To: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aol.com>; Leps List <leps-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch
overwintering colonies this past winter.

 

Okay but how do certain Monarch populations get to make long-distance
migrations and others do not. Also my understanding of a subspecies is that
they are not necessarily reproductively segregated. I am not sure what you
mean by segregated. Non-migratory Monarchs are segregated from migratory
populations as  I understand it.

Roger Kuhlman

  _____  

From: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aol.com <mailto:mexicodoug at aol.com> >
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 12:24 PM
To: Roger Kuhlman <rkuhlman at hotmail.com <mailto:rkuhlman at hotmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch
overwintering colonies this past winter. 

 

Calling something a subspecies based on migration to me would require
demonstrating two segregating populations at the very minimum. The p.
plexippus ssp. is already split. Migration is one descriptor, but not
defining trait in my understanding?

 

Is there evidence that Monarchs from  p. megalippe if that is a currently
accepted division, have evidence of not migrating when released in the
migratory areas? Just wondering, not judging.

 

Kindest wishes,

Doug

 

On Thursday, May 26, 2022, 11:04:08 AM EDT, Roger Kuhlman
<rkuhlman at hotmail.com <mailto:rkuhlman at hotmail.com> > wrote: 

 

 

That some Monarchs migrate has to be because they are genetically programed
to do so. They do not learn or voluntarily choose to adopt this lifestyle so
yes I would say the migrating Monarch is a subspecies. In any case migrating
Monarchs are important piece of Biodiversity and anything that threatens
this Biodiversity is a very bad thing. Aren't we losing enough Biodiversity
in the World today because of Human Overpopulation and Overdevelopment as it
is?

 

Roger Kuhlman

Ann Arbor, Michigan

  _____  

From: Leps-l <leps-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu
<mailto:leps-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> > on behalf of Stan Gorodenski
<stanlep at commspeed.net <mailto:stanlep at commspeed.net> >
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2022 3:21 PM
To: leps-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:leps-l at mailman.yale.edu>
<leps-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:leps-l at mailman.yale.edu> >
Subject: Re: [Leps-l] Finally Announced: The size of the Mexican monarch
overwintering colonies this past winter. 

 



On 5/25/2022 11:47 AM, Roger Kuhlman wrote:
> found there. Of course this present lack of Milkweeds can only be 
> detrimental to breeding Monarch populations in our area. Take away 
> masses on Common Milkweeds in the fields and open area, and Monarchs 
> are bound to suffer immensely. Who says we could not lose the 
> migrating Monarchs as a subspecies?

Are you saying that because they migrate they are a subspecies?
Stan

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